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Oracle and the fall of Java EE

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Re: Oracle and the fall of Java EE

#111

Post by FuNe »

geodel wrote: post #42

Java EE is described by some as old, heavy, over engineered technology as opposed to Java SE + simple servlet containers with some Spring or other 'lightweight' frameworks. However in my opinion there is something about Java/Java designers at Sun/Oracle/IBM that lead to over designed APIs and code. Looking at just Java servlet api, it is described in most elaborate manner. It is not about supporting Http Listeners en…

My feeling too. I believe it comes from Architecture Astronauting: http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000018.html Java/enterprise world is pestered by such guys.

Re: Oracle and the fall of Java EE

#112

Post by Synaesthesia »

agumonkey wrote: post #16
markokrajnc wrote: post #2

Java EE is a set of mostly bad libs for Java SE. Unfortunately the upper management has seen it as a "better Java SE"...

Sadest part is that it diffused into education.

Agree! Over here we're teaching it to high school kids, when I think Python will be a lot more suitable and enjoyable.

Re: Oracle and the fall of Java EE

#113

Post by raverbashing »

SSLy wrote: post #43
vetinari wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except for the above malware comments, what exactly does "Install Java" mean? You cannot redistribute the installer or the installed files. Except other things it means, you cannot make a docker image with java app and redistribute it. Everyone has to download their own java installer and build images themselves.

Yeah, no. https://hub.docker.com/r/madsonic/ubuntu-madsonic/~/dockerfi... Java (openJDK) is GPL licenced.

Yes. But openJDK might not solve your problem

Re: Oracle and the fall of Java EE

#114

Post by nickbauman »

ufmace wrote: post #23
StevePerkins wrote: post #9

Amen. Be it Hacker News, or the /r/java subreddit, or wherever, it feels like the bulk of Java chatter revolves around... 1. Security vulnerabilities 2. The Ask.com toolbar 3. Oracle abandoning Java EE ... which is extremely frustrating because... 1. Virtually all of the "security vulnerabilities" deal with the browser plugin for using applets, which hasn't been widely used in 15 years 2. The toolbar malware, while s…

I've worked on the Microsoft stack for most of my career, and I'm curious what Java has/does that the .NET stack doesn't. Or is that more about the .NET core stuff for running on Linux-based systems?

For far too long Microsoft claimed "runs on all platforms" which to them meant "runs on all versions of Windows". They have recently changed their tune on this somewhat, but it was too little, too late for most of us. I don't think I will ever run windows again in my lifetime.

Re: Oracle and the fall of Java EE

#115

Post by scriptproof »

lucio wrote: post #100
elgabogringo wrote: post #14

Everybody hates Oracle, but people still give them so much money! One has to wonder when it will end now that there are alternatives.

The DB is an excellent product. It is not just sales and/or execs relations. I've used ORACLE, Postgre, MySql, SQlite, MS-Sql, and also Firebird. From the bunch, ORACLE is not only the expensive one, it also delivers.

Maybe but Google, Facebook, Twitter, Yahoo, eBay, etc... work very well without this database.

Re: Oracle and the fall of Java EE

#116

Post by krylon »

xorcist wrote: post #79
StevePerkins wrote: post #9

Amen. Be it Hacker News, or the /r/java subreddit, or wherever, it feels like the bulk of Java chatter revolves around... 1. Security vulnerabilities 2. The Ask.com toolbar 3. Oracle abandoning Java EE ... which is extremely frustrating because... 1. Virtually all of the "security vulnerabilities" deal with the browser plugin for using applets, which hasn't been widely used in 15 years 2. The toolbar malware, while s…

> the browser plugin for using applets, which hasn't been widely used in 15 years Oh, by all the possible deities, how I wish that was even remotely true...

Amen to that!

Re: Oracle and the fall of Java EE

#117

Post by kodablah »

vetinari wrote: post #30
claystu wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's so hard about the JVM install? I googled for "java download" and this was my first hit: https://java.com/en/download/ Went there and found a single, totally obvious button labeled "Free Java Download" that detects your browser and Operating System and makes sure you download the proper version of the JVM. How much easier could it be?

Except for the above malware comments, what exactly does "Install Java" mean? You cannot redistribute the installer or the installed files. Except other things it means, you cannot make a docker image with java app and redistribute it. Everyone has to download their own java installer and build images themselves.

> You cannot redistribute the installer or the installed files. Except other things it means, you cannot make a docker image with java app and redistribute it. Everyone has to download their own java installer and build images themselves.

This is only true for Oracle Java, which is basically OpenJDK and some dev tools. OpenJDK is basically all you need and you can redistribute it or docker images with it. See http://zulu.org/

Re: Oracle and the fall of Java EE

#118

Post by FuNe »

kitd wrote: post #74
johan_larson wrote: post #38

What are the current best bets for writing web apps in Java? Play! is convenient, but how does it compare to Spring Boot?

If you simply want to serve a web ui, Play and Spring Boot are good. Play is a bit more self-contained. It provides a lot but doing something a bit out of the ordinary can be challenging. Spring Boot is more agnostic in that respect but relies (obviously) on Spring for dependency handling. As well as those 2, Dropwizard is excellent if you're writing REST apis and provides many enterprise-friendly features out of the…

Also http://www.ninjaframework.org/

Re: Oracle and the fall of Java EE

#119

Post by dozzie »

huherto wrote: post #98
aryamaan wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are actual Java's shortcomings?

> What are actual Java's shortcomings? I guess, it depends on the application. - I would not use Java for desktop applications. - Not for small quick and dirty scripts that I will use once on a while. I use Perl for that. - Neither for command tools. Start up times may be an issue. - For server applications, java is great.

> - For server applications, java is great.

...unless it's not the main application run by the server (like in auxiliary services, message spooler, monitoring agent, some kind of cleanup service, stuff like that). Then its memory usage is a mess.

Re: Oracle and the fall of Java EE

#120

Post by einrealist »

Nice post! I have the same opinion.

I guess, most people who make a scene about Oracle's stance think that Java EE is the same as the JCP. The JCP will go on and JSRs that are part of EE will continue to evolve. Its just a question of which JSRs still have value in a world of fast changing cloud / compute infrastructures.

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