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Dallas Police Used Robot with Bomb to Kill Ambush Suspect: Mayor

nbcnews.com

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Re: Dallas Police Used Robot with Bomb to Kill Ambush Suspect: Mayor

#61

Post by mikeash »

KON_Air wrote: post #52

I wonder how they made the robot blow people up, it doesn't seem like there are any factory made "Turn your expensive toy into sucidie bomber" kit. Jurry-rigging on the scene using moving parts to pull a pin of a grenade? Or did they use a last resort "let's blow it up when we clear the premises" kind of defusal kit? Or did they already had a custom kit with directional explosives? The robot in question, incase anyon…

There's a brief mention in the article of non-lethal measures being used in previous cases. I wonder if maybe they tried to do the same here, but it went wrong. For example, maybe the explosive was only intended to incapacitate, but was accidentally too powerful, or the suspect was too close, or some other factor caused it to be lethal instead.

Re: Dallas Police Used Robot with Bomb to Kill Ambush Suspect: Mayor

#62

Post by mikeash »

tzs wrote: post #30

According to the story at the NY Times, during negotiations the suspect had said he wanted to kill white people, particularly police, that the end was near, and that he had bombs throughout the garage and surrounding area.

That last part is particularly weird to me: if they thought he could be telling the truth, wouldn't they want to keep him alive in case they could get him to talk about those bombs?

Re: Dallas Police Used Robot with Bomb to Kill Ambush Suspect: Mayor

#63

Post by JoeAltmaier »

mikeash wrote: post #46
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But he was an active shooter with a deadly weapon, not surrendering. If it had been a police sniper instead of a robot, that would have been no different and perhaps more familiar and expected?

No, we don't expect police snipers to shoot a suspect who's holed up and talking and has no hostages. At least I certainly wouldn't.

I wonder how 'holed up' he was. Many parking garages are open to the air. Imagine had he escaped?

Re: Dallas Police Used Robot with Bomb to Kill Ambush Suspect: Mayor

#64

Post by ncallaway »

eximius wrote: post #58
ncallaway wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone who has shot multiple officers and is currently armed IS an imminent threat by any and every legal definition.

They are A THREAT but not an IMMINENT one.

He was armed, had shot officers in the immediately recent past and had threatened to do so again in the future. By absolutely every legal definition of imminent threat this person was one. Every active shooter is an imminent threat.

If this goes in front of a judge it will be ruled that he was an imminent threat. There's really 0 question about that.

I say this as someone who feels strongly that lethal force is used far too often, and that there is a massive racial disparity in that use of force.

Re: Dallas Police Used Robot with Bomb to Kill Ambush Suspect: Mayor

#65

Post by mikeash »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #63
mikeash wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, we don't expect police snipers to shoot a suspect who's holed up and talking and has no hostages. At least I certainly wouldn't.

I wonder how 'holed up' he was. Many parking garages are open to the air. Imagine had he escaped?

Can't have been too viable given that he didn't run away from the deadly robot.

Re: Dallas Police Used Robot with Bomb to Kill Ambush Suspect: Mayor

#66

Post by mc32 »

iandanforth wrote: post #28
eximius wrote: post #9

Wow. This feels incredibly wrong. I know it is just an extension of the militarization of American police, but should they be allowed to issue a death sentence like that? I argue no. Expend the time and resources to non-lethally incarcerate him.

This repurposing of a defensive, life saving robot into a lethal weapon also offends me deeply. If corporations had an ounce of human conscience the manufacturer would terminate their contacts with this department immediately.

What's the difference between sending in a robot or a SWAT team? Also, they could just repurpose an RC vehicle with similar results. And why not ask gun mfgs to stop selling guns to criminals as well as police? What separates a robot from a firearm in this case?

Re: Dallas Police Used Robot with Bomb to Kill Ambush Suspect: Mayor

#67

Post by whamlastxmas »

daedalus_j wrote: post #12
PietdeVries wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well... If you have to chose between sending in your troops/colleagues or a robot, what would you pick?

Tear gas, flashbangs, water cannons, a nice safe armored vehicle... All appropriate (ish) police tools. IEDs: rather less so.

They had one of those super armored trucks (Bearcat) there on location. It even has a little turret on top designed for safely shooting out of. They can withstand multiple .50 rounds to the same location. What's the point of spending millions in purchasing and maintenance on these if you're not going to use them?

Re: Dallas Police Used Robot with Bomb to Kill Ambush Suspect: Mayor

#68

Post by callahad »

anonymousguy wrote: post #51
eximius wrote: post #9

Wow. This feels incredibly wrong. I know it is just an extension of the militarization of American police, but should they be allowed to issue a death sentence like that? I argue no. Expend the time and resources to non-lethally incarcerate him.

Why? The guy was directly responsible, either solely or in a group, for intentionally assassinating uniformed police during a crowded event and vocally claimed to plant bombs and kill more police. There is no greater justification for police to immediately terminate a life, whether that justification is legal or due to exigence. If this is what it took to end the suspect's life, thereby preventing further harm, then…

> If this is what it took to end the suspect's life, thereby preventing further harm

Your reasoning is based on a premise that hasn't been established: that killing the suspect was necessary to prevent further harm. It seems like most of the discussion here is questioning that point: if the suspect had been located and surrounded, was there a credible threat of further harm? If there was time to repurpose the bomb-dispoal bot, were there not also non-lethal ways to apprehend the suspect?

Re: Dallas Police Used Robot with Bomb to Kill Ambush Suspect: Mayor

#69

Post by jonlucc »

mc32 wrote: post #66
iandanforth wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This repurposing of a defensive, life saving robot into a lethal weapon also offends me deeply. If corporations had an ounce of human conscience the manufacturer would terminate their contacts with this department immediately.

What's the difference between sending in a robot or a SWAT team? Also, they could just repurpose an RC vehicle with similar results. And why not ask gun mfgs to stop selling guns to criminals as well as police? What separates a robot from a firearm in this case?

Intent. Police officers with firearms are only supposed to fire them to end immediate danger to themselves or others. Sending in a robot with a bomb is much more of an execution.
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