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Dallas Police Used Robot with Bomb to Kill Ambush Suspect: Mayor

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Re: Dallas Police Used Robot with Bomb to Kill Ambush Suspect: Mayor

#51

Post by anonymousguy »

eximius wrote: post #9

Wow. This feels incredibly wrong. I know it is just an extension of the militarization of American police, but should they be allowed to issue a death sentence like that? I argue no. Expend the time and resources to non-lethally incarcerate him.

Why? The guy was directly responsible, either solely or in a group, for intentionally assassinating uniformed police during a crowded event and vocally claimed to plant bombs and kill more police. There is no greater justification for police to immediately terminate a life, whether that justification is legal or due to exigence.

If this is what it took to end the suspect's life, thereby preventing further harm, then so be it and congratulations.

Re: Dallas Police Used Robot with Bomb to Kill Ambush Suspect: Mayor

#52

Post by KON_Air »

I wonder how they made the robot blow people up, it doesn't seem like there are any factory made "Turn your expensive toy into sucidie bomber" kit. Jurry-rigging on the scene using moving parts to pull a pin of a grenade? Or did they use a last resort "let's blow it up when we clear the premises" kind of defusal kit? Or did they already had a custom kit with directional explosives?

The robot in question, incase anyone cares about the robot; https://www.qinetiq-na.com/products/unmanned-systems/dragon-...

Re: Dallas Police Used Robot with Bomb to Kill Ambush Suspect: Mayor

#53

Post by breck »

Like everyone else I don't have any details on this beyond what's been reported. But I for one think this -may- have been a great decision to end the standoff without risking the lives of any more officers.

For those that are saying "there was no imminent threat", that is incorrect. One relevant data point, see the 2009 standoff in Oakland, where 2 SWAT officers died when they moved in on a cornered suspect (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_shootings_of_Oakland_poli...).

This seems to me like a good application of technology in this extremely rare type of situation.

Re: Dallas Police Used Robot with Bomb to Kill Ambush Suspect: Mayor

#54

Post by whamlastxmas »

noonespecial wrote: post #45

If it seems oddly excessive, this might be the point. Cops are always "enthusiastic" in their response to cop-killers. I think they intentionally sought out a way to end the standoff with a little extra extravagance. An IRL sharks with frikin lasers moment. The entire thing, from the shooting of the unarmed man by police to this end seems to be one long chain of ridiculous over-reactions. I sense a theme.

Remember that rogue cop a few years back that killed a few other cops and tried to flee the country?

In their efforts to find them, eight cops open fired on a truck with two women inside. Over 100 rounds fired, and the women thankfully survived despite multiple gunshot wounds. And of course millions of dollars were awarded to those women and none of the officers were fired as a result.

And remember how that situation ended? The cop killer holed up in a cabin in the woods by himself surrounded by hundreds of cops. They decided to burn the place down with the cop killer in it.

Only a few cops are actively over-aggressive and hot headed, but that nearly every other cop stands by as they let the suspect burn alive (or over a hundred rounds fired at a truck without any probable cause) says all that needs to be said.

Re: Dallas Police Used Robot with Bomb to Kill Ambush Suspect: Mayor

#55

Post by mikeash »

simonsarris wrote: post #34

If this catches on I am sure we'll see a shift in language from calling them "bomb disposal robots" to "threat disposal robots", or "danger mitigation robots", or something similar. The chilling bit is that this was a death sentence for a suspect of non-imminent threat, which opens a pretty big can of worms. (What if it was the wrong guy? What if there was a hostage near him? etc)

The language in the police department's announcement that I heard on the radio was really curious. I can't find a transcript so I'm going by memory, but it was something like, "The suspect was deceased by a robot carrying a bomb." It was really passive and euphemistic language. I thought it was weird that they couldn't just say straght-up "our officers killed him." I'd have no problem with that statement if the killing was justified, but they seemed to want to soften it as much as possible.

Re: Dallas Police Used Robot with Bomb to Kill Ambush Suspect: Mayor

#56

Post by mikeash »

whamlastxmas wrote: post #48
mikeash wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that question really needs to be asked. We already have a perfectly good answer: lethal force is acceptable when there's an imminent threat to innocent lives. The problem isn't that we don't know when lethal force is acceptable, the problem is that people keep ignoring the answer .

>when there's an imminent threat to innocent lives This is way too subjective.

Welcome to the world, where everything worthwhile is filled with ambiguity and subjectivity.

Re: Dallas Police Used Robot with Bomb to Kill Ambush Suspect: Mayor

#57

Post by Piskvorrr »

simonsarris wrote: post #34

If this catches on I am sure we'll see a shift in language from calling them "bomb disposal robots" to "threat disposal robots", or "danger mitigation robots", or something similar. The chilling bit is that this was a death sentence for a suspect of non-imminent threat, which opens a pretty big can of worms. (What if it was the wrong guy? What if there was a hostage near him? etc)

What if his taillight was broken? (Seriously, is the original shooting now escalating into a civil war in a matter of days? Looks like that.)

Re: Dallas Police Used Robot with Bomb to Kill Ambush Suspect: Mayor

#58

Post by eximius »

ncallaway wrote: post #33
mikeash wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think shooting him would have been legal either. You only get to shoot a suspect when there's an imminent threat, and it sounds like there wasn't one. (If there was, they wouldn't have had time to send in the robot.)

Someone who has shot multiple officers and is currently armed IS an imminent threat by any and every legal definition.

They are A THREAT but not an IMMINENT one.

Re: Dallas Police Used Robot with Bomb to Kill Ambush Suspect: Mayor

#59

Post by mikeash »

breck wrote: post #53

Like everyone else I don't have any details on this beyond what's been reported. But I for one think this -may- have been a great decision to end the standoff without risking the lives of any more officers. For those that are saying "there was no imminent threat", that is incorrect. One relevant data point, see the 2009 standoff in Oakland, where 2 SWAT officers died when they moved in on a cornered suspect ( https:/…

The SWAT team had to move in on that suspect because the police felt the suspect was a threat to the lives of other people in the building, so they couldn't wait him out. That doesn't seem to have been the case here, since the suspect was in a parking garage.

Re: Dallas Police Used Robot with Bomb to Kill Ambush Suspect: Mayor

#60

Post by LeifCarrotson »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #16
eximius wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For one, threat level. A cop shooting the suspect has at least the argument of supposed self-defense from imminent harm. They sought him out from a safe place with the sole purpose of his destruction.

But he was an active shooter with a deadly weapon, not surrendering. If it had been a police sniper instead of a robot, that would have been no different and perhaps more familiar and expected?

No, he was not an active shooter.

The FBI definition is "an individual actively engaged in killing or attempting to kill people in a confined and populated area".

He was cornered in a parking garage, not active.

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