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Facebook Messenger begins testing end-to-end encryption using Signal Protocol

whispersystems.org

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Re: Facebook Messenger begins testing end-to-end encryption using Signal Protocol

#81

Post by remy_ »

eganist wrote: post #56
remy_ wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because if you serve the library responsible for the encryption from the server, an attacker can perform a man in the middle attack and change that library. This will change when browsers will start implementing the web crypto api. https://www.w3.org/TR/WebCryptoAPI/

The concern is less MITM and more a compromise of the server, but close enough. Check my parallel response to Omnipresent's comment.

Fair enough, whatever is the easiest for the attacker :). I'm checking Cyph and its "Trust On First Use" concept. Very interesting.

Re: Facebook Messenger begins testing end-to-end encryption using Signal Protocol

#82

Post by em3rgent0rdr »

moxie wrote: post #72
evgen wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you need to ask this question then you don't have the skills to verify that your device is running a secure protocol even if I handed you the source code. There are people out there who do have the skills, and you can be certain that they will be reverse-engineering the distributed binaries as soon as possible. I would be extremely surprised if there was not a lightning talks or two at DefCon or BH this year going…

We've verified that FBM is using the unmodified open source Signal Protocol libraries we distribute at open whisper systems. Hopefully others will verify the same!

OK, I'll wait for independent verification, thanks!

Re: Facebook Messenger begins testing end-to-end encryption using Signal Protocol

#83

Post by pilif »

nileshtrivedi wrote: post #76
moxie wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Signal Protocol already supports multi-device. We've encouraged them to enable that for Secret Conversations, and hopefully they'll continue to iterate towards support for e2e by default.

That's nice! :) What did the OP mean by "No secure way to verify code or store keys (in web browser) without routing through mobile" ?

There's no way for a site to securely store keys in the browser. The server can't put them there because then the server would have them too. A client-side script could generate them, but it can't store them without extensions (or the server via some JS it sends) also having access to them.

This is why Signal and WhatsApp require the client to run on the phone - the phones are doing the decryption for the web apps.

This is flaky, consumes a lot of battery and generally is somewhat error-prone - probably not something FB wants to deal with.

Re: Facebook Messenger begins testing end-to-end encryption using Signal Protocol

#84

Post by danesparza »

So ... no comment on the choice of picture in the blog post? I hadn't heard of Jules Bonnot, but found the wikipedia article illuminating: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jules_Bonnot

This seems like it's a subtle endorsement for using Open Whisper Systems for criminal activities. Is it just me, or does that seem like the wrong image to gravitate towards?

Re: Facebook Messenger begins testing end-to-end encryption using Signal Protocol

#85

Post by merpnderp »

blahi wrote: post #41
merpnderp wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, worse, he's being scored by highly imperfect algorithms.

In what way is it worse?

What if he's scored as a threat and reported to the FBI? A human can understand sarcasm, jokes, or hyperbole. An algorithm is going to see scary words and add them to the 'dangerous' score.

Re: Facebook Messenger begins testing end-to-end encryption using Signal Protocol

#86

Post by nileshtrivedi »

moxie wrote: post #72
evgen wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you need to ask this question then you don't have the skills to verify that your device is running a secure protocol even if I handed you the source code. There are people out there who do have the skills, and you can be certain that they will be reverse-engineering the distributed binaries as soon as possible. I would be extremely surprised if there was not a lightning talks or two at DefCon or BH this year going…

We've verified that FBM is using the unmodified open source Signal Protocol libraries we distribute at open whisper systems. Hopefully others will verify the same!

Can you share the steps so that more people can do this? What exactly should we look for?

Re: Facebook Messenger begins testing end-to-end encryption using Signal Protocol

#87

Post by ianlevesque »

SixSigma wrote: post #7

I'm still sticking with the website version, thanks https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.facebook.o... Messenger, Facebook This app has access to: Identity find accounts on the device read your own contact card add or remove accounts Contacts find accounts on the device read your contacts modify your contacts Location precise location (GPS and network-based) approximate location (network-based) SMS edit…

The situation is considerably better on Marshmallow because the app only prompts for permission for the extra features right before they are used - and many of those never will be. The app covers a lot of functionality (too much?).

Re: Facebook Messenger begins testing end-to-end encryption using Signal Protocol

#88

Post by matheweis »

eganist wrote: post #40
evgen wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Device to device. As you are aware, doing this in a browser in a manner that is not begging for failure is next to impossible.

I made the comparison to Cyph for a reason. Every time Cyph comes up, there's some amount of lively debate about whether they've actually got working in-browser code signing (which they filed a patent on). I'd argue they do, but I'm also one of the guys who reviewed the implementation.

Even if they have been able to successfully get in-browser code signing working, how can they possibly gaurantee no leakage of data? I mean, there are so many inroads, from mitm to rogue browser plugins... It seems (near) impossible to secure them all.

Re: Facebook Messenger begins testing end-to-end encryption using Signal Protocol

#89

Post by ge0rg »

Now that the Signal Protocol is deployed in so many different places, is there a proper specification of the (current) protocol? (The old axolotl spec and the GPL implementation don't qualify)

What are the licensing conditions / restrictions for using the protocol?

Re: Facebook Messenger begins testing end-to-end encryption using Signal Protocol

#90

Post by nileshtrivedi »

pilif wrote: post #83
nileshtrivedi wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's nice! :) What did the OP mean by "No secure way to verify code or store keys (in web browser) without routing through mobile" ?

There's no way for a site to securely store keys in the browser. The server can't put them there because then the server would have them too. A client-side script could generate them, but it can't store them without extensions (or the server via some JS it sends) also having access to them. This is why Signal and WhatsApp require the client to run on the phone - the phones are doing the decryption for the web apps. T…

Server would have the keys _because_ the client-side code can send it to the server. That's also possible in the native app, isn't it?
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