Earlier quoted context omitted.
The wording "we read your email" isn't quite accurate. There is nobody at google who goes through davb's emails one by one.
Yeah, worse, he's being scored by highly imperfect algorithms.
In what way is it worse?
Facebook Messenger begins testing end-to-end encryption using Signal Protocol
41–50 of 312 posts
Re: Facebook Messenger begins testing end-to-end encryption using Signal Protocol
#42Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The same reason Gmail can't work with end-to-end encryption--they want to advertise at you based on message content. I wonder how they'd do if they were more open about it. "You're getting Gmail for free because we read your email and advertise to you. However, if you want to pay for a premium account (or Google Apps for Work) then we won't advertise to you, won't read your email and we'll even make end-to-end encr…
ads is a by product. The aim of google is to build AI. For training AI, it needs access to all the data about you. Maybe, google has already succeeded and the singularity has already happened ;-)
A by product of what? 86% of their profits come from advertising[1].
If that's not the definition of an ad company then I don't know what is.
[1] - http://adage.com/article/digital/google-q4-2015-earnings/302...
Re: Facebook Messenger begins testing end-to-end encryption using Signal Protocol
#43"End-To-End Encrypted ‘Secret Conversations’" in software that is ordinarily used to harvest electronic phone books and rummage through user photos, from a company that made its whole fortune trying to obliterate privacy as a part of human culture? It's going to be pretty high standards of proof to give this anything that resembles credibility.
I am confident Facebook will meet your high standards when it comes to E2E encryption for Messenger.
Here's a whitepaper to start:
https://fbnewsroomus.files.wordpress.com/2016/07/secret_conv...
Re: Facebook Messenger begins testing end-to-end encryption using Signal Protocol
#44Reasons from not enabling it by default by @alexstamos (CSO @ Facebook):
- FBM is multi-device, and we'd like to see E2E usability improve to support this. For now, pick one device and keys never leave it
- Secret conversations don't currently support popular features like searching message history, switching devices, voice/video, etc
- Hundreds of millions use Messenger from a web browser. No secure way to verify code or store keys without routing through mobile.
"We don't want to disrupt people's current experience."
Source: https://twitter.com/alexstamos
Re: Facebook Messenger begins testing end-to-end encryption using Signal Protocol
#45"End-To-End Encrypted ‘Secret Conversations’" in software that is ordinarily used to harvest electronic phone books and rummage through user photos, from a company that made its whole fortune trying to obliterate privacy as a part of human culture? It's going to be pretty high standards of proof to give this anything that resembles credibility.
I am confident Facebook will meet your high standards when it comes to E2E encryption for Messenger.
And we had some smart outside people review it:
https://twitter.com/matthew_d_green/status/75140316340882636...
Re: Facebook Messenger begins testing end-to-end encryption using Signal Protocol
#46From what is written, I understand this to mean that users can select this feature for specific conversations. That not all messages are subject to this encryption. I am not usually one for paranoia, but is anyone else becoming more suspicious about Facebooks motivations and involvement with gov? This feature is a massive boost for intelligence services dealing with unsophisticated actors. This reduces the haystack s…
I think the more likely scenario is they know the value of the conversations they datamine, but don't want to lose customers to these other message apps that tout their encryption. So they do the bare minimum to support encryption while still having access to most data.
Over here in the real world, Facebook does not need to worry about "[losing] customers to these other message apps that tout their encryption" because the latter are not even in the game. There are only a few messaging apps that matter, because the value of the app is in its network and who it can connect you to rather than some feature checklist for the HN crowd.
Dropping secure E2E encryption into an app that is deployed on hundreds of millions of phones across the globe is a game changer. Period. Once you climb down from your lofty ivory tower and consider the impact this will have globally then perhaps you you will be a bit less dismissive of the goals and efforts of the team that convinced a company that lives on data to delierately blind itself to some for the sake of their users privacy and security.
Re: Facebook Messenger begins testing end-to-end encryption using Signal Protocol
#47As much as this is a step in the right direction, you have to specifically enable encryption for individual conversations in Messenger. This implementation seems a little sketchy to me. They really should just encrypt every conversation automatically. Otherwise, encryption only encourages scrutiny.
If they end-to-end encryption all the conversations then they won't be able to mine all that data for advertising purposes...
Re: Facebook Messenger begins testing end-to-end encryption using Signal Protocol
#48Earlier quoted context omitted.
Hi. To move all messages to be E2E encrypted, we need credible solution for web clients and every other platform, including old feature phones. This is easier said than done, but is something we are thinking about. Secret Conversations is a step in the right direction.
"feature phones" sounds like newspeak. Why are they called that? If anything I'd think they'd be called "lack-of-feature-phones".
Because "phone" is the primary feature. Phone-feature phone sounds silly. You can say lack of features phone if you like, most people prefer shorter phrases.
Re: Facebook Messenger begins testing end-to-end encryption using Signal Protocol
#49Earlier quoted context omitted.
Hi. To move all messages to be E2E encrypted, we need credible solution for web clients and every other platform, including old feature phones. This is easier said than done, but is something we are thinking about. Secret Conversations is a step in the right direction.
"feature phones" sounds like newspeak. Why are they called that? If anything I'd think they'd be called "lack-of-feature-phones".
Feature phone is actually oldspeak. It's what we called cell phones with features back when most cell phones didn't have features. Then smartphones came along and reset the expectations for what features a phone has, leaving feature phones in the dust. But there was a time where feature phone meant something positive.
Re: Facebook Messenger begins testing end-to-end encryption using Signal Protocol
#50I wonder by "end-to-end" do they mean they will be implementing Signal Protocol, that would be a pretty awesome increase in security (for most peoples threat models)...WhisperSystems are genuinely amazing at what they do, they have like less than 5 staff and very little budget but they are literally saving hundreds if not thousands of lives. Any chance some rich HN member will recognise this and open up the chequeboo…
Looks like it is : https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12055375