Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Facebook Messenger begins testing end-to-end encryption using Signal Protocol

whispersystems.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 312 posts

Re: Facebook Messenger begins testing end-to-end encryption using Signal Protocol

#21

Post by sweis »

alva wrote: post #3

From what is written, I understand this to mean that users can select this feature for specific conversations. That not all messages are subject to this encryption. I am not usually one for paranoia, but is anyone else becoming more suspicious about Facebooks motivations and involvement with gov? This feature is a massive boost for intelligence services dealing with unsophisticated actors. This reduces the haystack s…

Hi. To move all messages to be E2E encrypted, we need credible solution for web clients and every other platform, including old feature phones. This is easier said than done, but is something we are thinking about.

Secret Conversations is a step in the right direction.

Re: Facebook Messenger begins testing end-to-end encryption using Signal Protocol

#23

Post by matt_wulfeck »

alva wrote: post #3

From what is written, I understand this to mean that users can select this feature for specific conversations. That not all messages are subject to this encryption. I am not usually one for paranoia, but is anyone else becoming more suspicious about Facebooks motivations and involvement with gov? This feature is a massive boost for intelligence services dealing with unsophisticated actors. This reduces the haystack s…

n excellent point, however I will add to your thinking that we want our government to be able to eavesdrop on conversation provided it's done constitutionally, with probably cause, in an open court and with a warrant.

If we can't get those things then it's pointless to fight back with encryption. We must have our constitutional protections.

Re: Facebook Messenger begins testing end-to-end encryption using Signal Protocol

#24

Post by nxzero »

yoz-y wrote: post #4
alva wrote: post #3

From what is written, I understand this to mean that users can select this feature for specific conversations. That not all messages are subject to this encryption. I am not usually one for paranoia, but is anyone else becoming more suspicious about Facebooks motivations and involvement with gov? This feature is a massive boost for intelligence services dealing with unsophisticated actors. This reduces the haystack s…

They have taken exactly the same approach as Google with the Allo service. This is most probably done because people want to use Chat Bots and services and these do not work with E2E encryption. Well they could work but it would be dishonest branding as the messages would leak.

>> "Chat Bots and services and these do not work with E2E encryption"

It might be true that FB adding E2E breaks existing bots, but it's false that it breaks that ability to use bots on FB.

Re: Facebook Messenger begins testing end-to-end encryption using Signal Protocol

#26

Post by jswny »

I'm really skeptical about this. First of all, Facebook collects more user data than just about any company out there. They make most of their money off of advertising and harvesting user data and metadata. Facebook is just about the last company I'd trust to encrypt data of mine. It's like them saying, "hey, I know we make most of our revenue off of collecting user data but I think we should throw away a huge portion of that."

Additionally, from what I've gathered, they are going to role this out so that you have to specifically tell Messenger you want to encrypt a chat. Why would they not just make encryption universal? If anything, this makes it even easier for the government or other entities to target "suspicious activity." I'm far too skeptical of Facebook and how they are going about this whole process to be happy about it.

Re: Facebook Messenger begins testing end-to-end encryption using Signal Protocol

#27

Post by JustSomeNobody »

napoleond wrote: post #9
alva wrote: post #3

From what is written, I understand this to mean that users can select this feature for specific conversations. That not all messages are subject to this encryption. I am not usually one for paranoia, but is anyone else becoming more suspicious about Facebooks motivations and involvement with gov? This feature is a massive boost for intelligence services dealing with unsophisticated actors. This reduces the haystack s…

> Why doesn't FB just apply encryption on all messages? The same reason Gmail can't work with end-to-end encryption--they want to advertise at you based on message content. I highly doubt there is any government intervention in FB's business strategy, but there seems to be plenty of cooperation after the business decisions are made. (The same is largely true with Microsoft, Google, and yes, even Apple.) It's not real…

> (b) we've entered a new cultural era, where the levels of privacy enjoyed in the past are no longer socially normal.

Yeah, that whole Bill of Rights thing just needs to go away, right?

Re: Facebook Messenger begins testing end-to-end encryption using Signal Protocol

#28

Post by blahi »

davb wrote: post #17
napoleond wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why doesn't FB just apply encryption on all messages? The same reason Gmail can't work with end-to-end encryption--they want to advertise at you based on message content. I highly doubt there is any government intervention in FB's business strategy, but there seems to be plenty of cooperation after the business decisions are made. (The same is largely true with Microsoft, Google, and yes, even Apple.) It's not real…

> The same reason Gmail can't work with end-to-end encryption--they want to advertise at you based on message content. I wonder how they'd do if they were more open about it. "You're getting Gmail for free because we read your email and advertise to you. However, if you want to pay for a premium account (or Google Apps for Work) then we won't advertise to you, won't read your email and we'll even make end-to-end encr…

The wording "we read your email" isn't quite accurate. There is nobody at google who goes through davb's emails one by one.

Re: Facebook Messenger begins testing end-to-end encryption using Signal Protocol

#29

Post by blahi »

napoleond wrote: post #9
alva wrote: post #3

From what is written, I understand this to mean that users can select this feature for specific conversations. That not all messages are subject to this encryption. I am not usually one for paranoia, but is anyone else becoming more suspicious about Facebooks motivations and involvement with gov? This feature is a massive boost for intelligence services dealing with unsophisticated actors. This reduces the haystack s…

> Why doesn't FB just apply encryption on all messages? The same reason Gmail can't work with end-to-end encryption--they want to advertise at you based on message content. I highly doubt there is any government intervention in FB's business strategy, but there seems to be plenty of cooperation after the business decisions are made. (The same is largely true with Microsoft, Google, and yes, even Apple.) It's not real…

Uhm, if you look back at history, privacy is a very recent thing. McLuhan has a lot of work around this.

Re: Facebook Messenger begins testing end-to-end encryption using Signal Protocol

#30

Post by reacweb »

davb wrote: post #17
napoleond wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why doesn't FB just apply encryption on all messages? The same reason Gmail can't work with end-to-end encryption--they want to advertise at you based on message content. I highly doubt there is any government intervention in FB's business strategy, but there seems to be plenty of cooperation after the business decisions are made. (The same is largely true with Microsoft, Google, and yes, even Apple.) It's not real…

> The same reason Gmail can't work with end-to-end encryption--they want to advertise at you based on message content. I wonder how they'd do if they were more open about it. "You're getting Gmail for free because we read your email and advertise to you. However, if you want to pay for a premium account (or Google Apps for Work) then we won't advertise to you, won't read your email and we'll even make end-to-end encr…

ads is a by product. The aim of google is to build AI. For training AI, it needs access to all the data about you. Maybe, google has already succeeded and the singularity has already happened ;-)
Post reply on HN