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Why most people don't like jazz

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Re: Why most people don't like jazz

#181

Post by sliverstorm »

mtalantikite wrote: post #142
sp332 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wynton Marsalis says "When the music stopped being about dancing, people stopped listening." I never completely bought it, but I like the sentiment anyway :-)

I went out to see Roy Haynes/Roy Hargrove the other night, and he basically said the same thing on stage. Looking out into an audience of mainly dead silent white people, he said something to the extent of: 'I remember when I was playing in Spain some years back with Joe Henderson and Chick Corea, and man the audience gave us no love back. But at the end of the concert a couple thousand of them all put up their light…

I hate it when people shout and yell and scream and whistle at concerts :(

I'm there to hear the music, not listen to myself and other people's voices.

I know that probably makes me sound like I'm a bit stuck up, or an old fogie, but honestly, I go to concerts to listen to music. That can't be that wrong.

Re: Why most people don't like jazz

#182

Post by bpyne »

tjr wrote: post #163
bpyne wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read a book on Duke Ellington in which he expressed concern for the emerging BeBop style's destruction of Jazz. It seems like he foresaw the move from structured, dance-able music to explorative music as isolating the music from the larger population. It's interesting that I didn't understand his opinion until just now. I'm still not sure I agree with it, but I can see how making music less dance-able could turn of…

Whatever bebop did to "destroy" the jazz that came before it very likely would have happened anyway. The big band jazz of the sort Ellington was best known for was dying out, primarily for financial reasons, and an increasing number of people who wanted to dance along with music were dancing along with rock rather than jazz. But, looking back at the big picture that even Ellington couldn't see at the time, I don't th…

I'm in 100% agreement. Btw, the book I referenced is "Beyond Category" by John Edward Hasse.

Re: Why most people don't like jazz

#183

Post by jsz0 »

Whew lots of words to sum up something that seems kind of obvious to me: People just aren't exposed to good jazz very often. We mostly hear really terrible soul defeating elevator jazz. People grow up understanding the language of rock, country, hip hop, etc so they will almost certainly hear some really good examples of music from these genres and naturally gravitate towards some or all of them. Jazz is an art form you really have to seek out these days. The better question is why did popular culture move away from jazz in favor of these other genres? I think it reflects the demand for shorter more concentrated messages in music. The 2-3 minute song is how most people consume music. If you sliced out some choice 2-3 minute segments of some great jazz albums I bet they could be palatable to a bigger audience even today. We see this in film & TV today with jazz and orchestral music. People like it but not in big doses.

Re: Why most people don't like jazz

#184

Post by [deleted] »

sliverstorm wrote: post #181
mtalantikite wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I went out to see Roy Haynes/Roy Hargrove the other night, and he basically said the same thing on stage. Looking out into an audience of mainly dead silent white people, he said something to the extent of: 'I remember when I was playing in Spain some years back with Joe Henderson and Chick Corea, and man the audience gave us no love back. But at the end of the concert a couple thousand of them all put up their light…

I hate it when people shout and yell and scream and whistle at concerts :( I'm there to hear the music, not listen to myself and other people's voices. I know that probably makes me sound like I'm a bit stuck up, or an old fogie, but honestly, I go to concerts to listen to music. That can't be that wrong.

[deleted]

Re: Why most people don't like jazz

#185

Post by anonjon »

habitue wrote: post #170
crux_ wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Music is entertainment and emotions. If that's the case, then I'd say that in WWF vs music, WWF wins every time! I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you think all post-renaissance painting is shit, too.

Visual art is distinctly different from music. It's possible to be entertained and feel emotion for visual art that is not a photorealistic depiction. Music, meanwhile, has certain rules that need to be obeyed in order for people to want to experience it. I'm sorry, John Cage might have some interesting concepts, but it's completely unlistenable. There are just some things that you cannot develop a real taste for. Th…

I listen to John Cage. I don't only listen to John Cage, but it is interesting. I think the problem is that you have to have a basis in music history to be able to appreciate what the hell he is trying to do.

If all you have been exposed to is 3 (four-five-one four-five-one) chord pop rock, no of course you won't appreciate Cage. In music, like cooking, you have to develop a palate for such things.

If all you've had all your life is french fries and ketchup, you probably won't like a lot of food that others will appreciate...

Re: Why most people don't like jazz

#186

Post by Semiapies »

jsz0 wrote: post #183

Whew lots of words to sum up something that seems kind of obvious to me: People just aren't exposed to good jazz very often. We mostly hear really terrible soul defeating elevator jazz. People grow up understanding the language of rock, country, hip hop, etc so they will almost certainly hear some really good examples of music from these genres and naturally gravitate towards some or all of them. Jazz is an art form…

I suspect many people in their 20s and 30s aren't aware of much of the jazz they've come in contact with as being jazz. When the expectation for jazz is "Kenny G.", you can come across quite a bit of it from older movies, TV shows, and pop music without recognizing as such.

Re: Why most people don't like jazz

#187

Post by anonjon »

talvisota wrote: post #145
nerme wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Phil·is·tine (fĭl'ĭ-stēn', fĭ-lĭs'tĭn, -tēn') n. 1. A member of an Aegean people who settled ancient Philistia around the 12th century B.C. 2. a. A smug, ignorant, especially middle-class person who is regarded as being indifferent or antagonistic to artistic and cultural values. b. One who lacks knowledge in a specific area. Dude, there is a WORLD of a difference between a computer application that is made for the p…

Where did you learn that? To me, art is about experiencing things, not "conversation". Art mostly just sits there to be seen or heard, and it will not care about my saying or thinking. Art may "talk" to me, but I can't talk to art. To your language analogy: what if I invent a language of my own and try to use it anywhere, how much the failure of communication is divided between me and the receivers? Many times "art"…

Is your last name Tolkein? Elvish is just some gibberish that he made up. I think that there is something profound and beautiful about creating your own language.

Re: Why most people don't like jazz

#188

Post by dkarl »

prewett wrote: post #75

The reason why I don't like jazz is that my ears can't find any pattern to it. There's no melody, except at the beginning and end of the piece, so the notes just sound random. So to me the music is largely indistinguishable from noise. Once I discovered that jazz is apparently about the chords it made more sense. (The notes appear to be unimportant as long as everyone is in the same chord)

What sounds random to you does not sound random to the jazz fan's ear. My father is completely unmusical in most ways, to the point of being a repeated embarrassment in my childhood, but he can recognize a jazz standard no matter what style it's played in, and even without any lead instrument playing a distinct melody. I mention his lack of talent and training because I think it is just a matter of listening to lots and lots of jazz. When my dad was in college, that's what the cool kids listened to, so he listened to as many hours of jazz as my generation listened to rock and pop. That's the key -- simply lots of exposure.

Re: Why most people don't like jazz

#189

Post by Semiapies »

ecoffey wrote: post #44

I thought I was the only one who didn't pay attention to lyrics. My friend and I kinda of resemble that dynamic. He loves some of the shittiest songs (imo) because of interesting lyrical content, where as I totally ignore them. If I like them it's because of how they were sung not because of me diving through looking for "meaning". That's why after all these years Pinback is still one of my favorite bands. Their voic…

There have been a few studies over the years that indicate that many or even most people don't listen closely - or rather often, at all - to lyrics in pop songs.

Anecdata-wise, I've had many occasions where I'd surprised people with the lyrics to songs they've long known and enjoyed. They simply didn't know the words beyond the choruses - and sometimes, not even those very accurately.

(Not to claim any great listening ability for myself - I often have to look up the lyrics of songs because I've long been a fan of stuff like REM's older and less lyrically precise albums. :) )

Sting once complained about "Every Breath You Take" being used in weddings; an intelligent woman I know was quite startled to realize what "Roxanne" was about when she heard it in a very different form in Moulin Rouge. If you didn't understand the words, you couldn't tell from the sound of these songs, "He's obsessed and stalking her." or "She's a prostitute."; even though these songs are sung in fairly clear English, most of us don't pay close attention to the words.

I think TFA's author is wildly over-generalizing on how Americans listen to music.

Re: Why most people don't like jazz

#190

Post by eru »

alaithea wrote: post #150
ajscherer wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why in the world would someone spend 6-8 hours listening to a piece of music they dislike just so they can like it? If I already have thousands of pieces of music I enjoy listening to, why should I put any effort into liking even more music? I don't buy the article's conclusion that people should listen to jazz because otherwise they are "missing a huge chunk of what life has to offer". Everyone is missing out on a h…

> Why is a purposefully acquired taste superior to one that didn't require effort? Some songs are instantly likable, often because they are simple and their hooks are easily grasped. I would compare them to children's songs. You know the tune and words, and may find it fun to sing along with once in a while, but as an adult, you're not going to get anything deep out of "Row Row Row Your Boat" over the long run. Enjoy…

Deep and easy to get into are not mutual exclusive.
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