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NASA Data Shows Toxic Air Threat Choking Indian Subcontinent

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Re: NASA Data Shows Toxic Air Threat Choking Indian Subcontinent

#191

Post by bthallplz »

almostApatriot1 wrote: post #174
bthallplz wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're useful trailblazers, but I'd love to see more free-market solutions tried and developed.

there's absolutely no incentive in the free market to care about pollution.

There technically is an incentive, though it might not be recognized as being enough to move the needle (mentioned later): if pollution is not taken care of in some way, the costs associated with supplying (producing) some thing (good or service) or things is likely increased as a result of the pollution.

The incentive to care about pollution, then, is the potential to save money when producing some thing or things by reducing the levels of pollution. That is, if it would cost less money to reduce pollution than the pollution causes the costs of production to increase, then you have an opportunity to save money by reducing pollution and possibly an opportunity to produce more (incentive to reduce pollution).

Problem is, the incentive might not be recognized as being enough to move the needle because the increase in costs of producing is likely distributed across many producers and its effect might be too minimal on a per-producer basis for them to either recognize that it exists or too costly to do anything at the level that they experience its effects.

Re: NASA Data Shows Toxic Air Threat Choking Indian Subcontinent

#192

Post by intended »

sremani wrote: post #134
rahulsidhu wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am afraid this picture is far from accurate. Power plants on the whole are running at a very low PLF for some time. Very cheap power is available in the short term markets[1]. The transmission system has also improved in the last two years and now prices are more or less uniform across the country[1]. Last mile distribution infrastructure is still a WIP in many places but the real problem is financial. Many distrib…

#2 may be outdated. #3 can be debated, but there were brown-outs and black-outs during the summer. Things have improved, but the pace is not something to write home about.

Complaining about pace is moving the goal posts here, and yes power shortages are a lot scarcer.

I sell gensets in the southern states and the market is shrinking.

Additionally what's being missed in this entire chain is that the new CPCB norms were released a few years ago and all gensets sold in india now conform to it one way or the other.

To still add to this - most gensets don't run as much as they are able to. For a majority of sets they run very little in the span of years.

The OP gave an example where power was not given to a mall due to corruption, not lack of power.

Re: NASA Data Shows Toxic Air Threat Choking Indian Subcontinent

#193

Post by jsmthrowaway »

astannard wrote: post #39

I remember traveling through Delhi and washing my face afterwards at the hotel. The amount of black sooty dirt that came off was startling!

If I take the tops and doors off my Jeep and drive for any length of time, this happens to my hair and skin even here in California. I keep a supply of Lava on hand, because regular soap does not even begin to clean my hands after a day of driving like that. I recently discovered that sunblock makes the soot "stick" (logically) so now I have to scrape my skin for about ten minutes in the shower. Washing my hair looks like I'm rinsing off a palette of black paint on particularly bad days or days where I spent a lot of time on the freeway to get to where I was going.

Counterintuitively, I get far dirtier traveling to the trail with my Jeep stripped than I do actually running the trail. Even dusty ones. I tend to keep it buttoned up now.

Pollution sucks everywhere. I'm not making a claim whether it's better or worse anywhere or disagreeing with your comment, just making an observation. (And yes, I'm aware the hobby I'm mentioning in this comment contributes. I offset it when I can.)

Re: NASA Data Shows Toxic Air Threat Choking Indian Subcontinent

#194

Post by waterhouse »

tossaway1 wrote: post #105
rapind wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could probably do the same in Canada fwiw.

Technically you could draw such a straight line in any country.

Consider a country with utterly uniform population density. It is trivially false that you can draw "a straight line with 6% of the population on the larger half, and 94% of the population on the smaller half" in such a country. I would be very surprised if all countries in the world were far enough from "uniform population density" for your statement to apply to them.

Re: NASA Data Shows Toxic Air Threat Choking Indian Subcontinent

#195

Post by vinalk »

ams6110 wrote: post #37
vinalk wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, almost all two wheeler sold in india are four stroke

Even so, small air-cooled engines typically have no emission controls and rudimentary carburetors and are quite dirty.

There is a PUC (Pollution under control) certificate that is required to be current (valid for 6 months) and has to be under the prescribed limit. Traffic cops check on this regularly. Systems are in place. Vehicles beyond 12 years are being banned. i think assumptions are dangerous.

Re: NASA Data Shows Toxic Air Threat Choking Indian Subcontinent

#196

Post by internaut »

eatbitseveryday wrote: post #165
internaut wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hear good things about HEPA filters. http://www.achooallergy.com/3m-6291-hepa-masks/ I'd recommend getting cheap disposable surgical masks as a backup strategy. They won't prevent the air being polluted but they will still filter the tiny particulates in the air that cause so many problems.

> cheap disposable surgical masks as a backup strategy. They won't prevent the air being polluted but they will still filter the tiny particulates in the air that cause so many problems. This is such a common misconception. Surgical masks are meant to prevent the transmission of diseases by blocking blood droplets etc. from entering your mouth. They are NOT[1] intended nor capable of filtering particles from the air…

I see! HEPA filters are still a good idea I presume.

If you can have plants at work/home that should help. I don't normally like TED talks but this guy seemed to have interesting information on the right kinds.

https://www.ted.com/talks/kamal_meattle_on_how_to_grow_your_...

Re: NASA Data Shows Toxic Air Threat Choking Indian Subcontinent

#197

Post by Retric »

vacri wrote: post #179
Retric wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China: ~94% of 1.357b = 1.28 billion population. ~40% of 3.7 mill = 1.5 million square miles. = ~0.85 billion people per million square miles. India 1.252 billion people on 1.269 million mi =~ 1 billion people per million square miles. So, India is around 15% denser. Of course you can avoid the strait line cut and push China's density much higher, but the point is they are not that far off where people actually live.

Where are you getting the 40% figure from? Are you saying that Tibet(-ish) is 60% of the land area of China?

Eyeballing: http://www.undertheraedar.com/2012/06/population-of-china.ht.... Tibet is part of that side with 6% of the population, but rainfall is a major issue limiting population over a much larger area.

Re: NASA Data Shows Toxic Air Threat Choking Indian Subcontinent

#198

Post by internaut »

rahimnathwani wrote: post #181
internaut wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hear good things about HEPA filters. http://www.achooallergy.com/3m-6291-hepa-masks/ I'd recommend getting cheap disposable surgical masks as a backup strategy. They won't prevent the air being polluted but they will still filter the tiny particulates in the air that cause so many problems.

This is really bad advice. Surgical masks don't filter much of the air you breathe. They don't make a seal, so incoming air takes the easiest path: around the mask, rather than through the mask.

Thanks for the explanation, I was wondering.

Re: NASA Data Shows Toxic Air Threat Choking Indian Subcontinent

#199

Post by mikeash »

jessriedel wrote: post #188
mikeash wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That may be the case sometimes, but I doubt it's the case in China, at least not always. Beijing is fairly wealthy these days, yet is still polluted like crazy. The health impacts are enormous. The reason it persists is because the the costs of cleaning it up are concentrated on a few, while the costs of being exposed are distributed among many, and there's no mechanism to push those costs back onto the responsible p…

>Beijing is fairly wealthy these days, yet is still polluted like crazy....The reason it persists is because the the costs of cleaning it up are concentrated on a few, while the costs of being exposed are distributed among many, and there's no mechanism to push those costs back onto the responsible parties. I don't know the details, but I suspect my explanation is better. Chinese per capita GDP is $6.8k, which is the…

According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Beijing, Beijing's per-capita GDP in 2013 was $15,000 nominal and $22,000 PPP. It's probably a fair bit higher today. That's more like 1990 USA, not 1940.

Re: NASA Data Shows Toxic Air Threat Choking Indian Subcontinent

#200

Post by mahranch »

jdietrich wrote: post #51
mahranch wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think his point was that we should loosen our restrictions, but re-direct our attention on the biggest abusers. Right now that's China. And it's not even close. You would need to combine the emissions of the U.S, India and the entirety of the European Union to equal China's annual CO2 emissions. See for yourself: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_di... Basically, China emits as much CO…

Your own link shows that China's per-capita CO2 emissions are half that of the US. It is rank hypocrisy to say that a Chinese person has less right to pollute than an American.

Per-capita is nonsense. It doesn't matter how much pollution is being released per person, we all live on the same rock.

Though if you want to go that route, India trounces China on C02, despite having more people.

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