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NASA Data Shows Toxic Air Threat Choking Indian Subcontinent

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Re: NASA Data Shows Toxic Air Threat Choking Indian Subcontinent

#181

Post by rahimnathwani »

internaut wrote: post #151
_navaneethan wrote: post #100

I am from India. Especially from Bangalore. I commute daily 30kms up and down. I am facing breathing polluted air issues. In fact I was looking for good pollution filter masks. But I am unable to get the good one. Since the reviews of them are unsatisfactory I am trying to come out of this issue at all. At the same time I don't want to leave my lovable tech job. Anybody experienced the same issues? Any advise ?

I hear good things about HEPA filters. http://www.achooallergy.com/3m-6291-hepa-masks/ I'd recommend getting cheap disposable surgical masks as a backup strategy. They won't prevent the air being polluted but they will still filter the tiny particulates in the air that cause so many problems.

This is really bad advice. Surgical masks don't filter much of the air you breathe. They don't make a seal, so incoming air takes the easiest path: around the mask, rather than through the mask.

Re: NASA Data Shows Toxic Air Threat Choking Indian Subcontinent

#182

Post by rahimnathwani »

_navaneethan wrote: post #100

I am from India. Especially from Bangalore. I commute daily 30kms up and down. I am facing breathing polluted air issues. In fact I was looking for good pollution filter masks. But I am unable to get the good one. Since the reviews of them are unsatisfactory I am trying to come out of this issue at all. At the same time I don't want to leave my lovable tech job. Anybody experienced the same issues? Any advise ?

For outside, I use a 3M rubbery mask (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008MCUT86) along with P100 filters (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007STCT00).

You could also use any of 3M's N95 disposable filters. They look a bit better, but you have to be more careful about getting a good seal when you put them on.

For home, you need to ensure your windows and doors have good seals. Then you need an air purifier (and to regularly change its filters). If you are on a budget, consider this one: http://smartairfilters.com/in/en/product-category/diy/

If money is no object, then get the IQAir Healthpro 250.

Re: NASA Data Shows Toxic Air Threat Choking Indian Subcontinent

#183

Post by gozur88 »

jschwartzi wrote: post #87
HenryTheHorse wrote: post #15

That satellite image of the haze is scary. Scarier still is how the deterioration of air quality in the cities is affecting health. (The WHO estimates ~15 million bronchial asthma patients in India.) You haven't experienced air pollution if you haven't breathed in the evening air in Mumbai or Bangalore during the rush hour.

Thank god for the US EPA.

But the EPA can only exist in the context of a country that's relatively wealthy. In countries where hunger is a problem, you can't ask people to accept a lower standard of living in exchange for a better environment, because a lower standard of living means starvation.

Re: NASA Data Shows Toxic Air Threat Choking Indian Subcontinent

#184

Post by bthallplz »

antisthenes wrote: post #163
bthallplz wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're useful trailblazers, but I'd love to see more free-market solutions tried and developed.

The free market solution to environmental issues has always been "dump it right here", because it completely ignores externalities. You'd have to be insane to even consider that it could be otherwise.

That it always has been some way does not mean that it cannot be otherwise.

Re: NASA Data Shows Toxic Air Threat Choking Indian Subcontinent

#185

Post by sswaner »

nukeu666 wrote: post #75
HenryTheHorse wrote: post #15

That satellite image of the haze is scary. Scarier still is how the deterioration of air quality in the cities is affecting health. (The WHO estimates ~15 million bronchial asthma patients in India.) You haven't experienced air pollution if you haven't breathed in the evening air in Mumbai or Bangalore during the rush hour.

You haven't experienced air pollution until Diwali night in a metro

Or Independence Day in Texas.

Re: NASA Data Shows Toxic Air Threat Choking Indian Subcontinent

#186

Post by maerF0x0 »

tossaway1 wrote: post #105
rapind wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could probably do the same in Canada fwiw.

Technically you could draw such a straight line in any country.

But you couldnt draw a straight line that has half the land area on each side yet 94/6% split of population.

Re: NASA Data Shows Toxic Air Threat Choking Indian Subcontinent

#187

Post by dkarapetyan »

chdir wrote: post #60

A related story : There's a mega mall in Chandigarh, India that wasn't given approval for a power connection for quite some time (politics / corruption). Real estate is super expensive & the owners couldn't afford to sit idle and play games with the government so they decided to run the mall from morning till night on diesel generators. That's ~ $4500 of diesel each day, probably 6-8k litres. This is an example of a…

Search for this quote. It is very relevant

> "Let me give you a lesson in practical politics. It is a mistake to suppose that the public wants the environment protected or their lives saved and that they will be grateful to any idealist who will fight for such ends. What the public wants is their own individual comfort."

Re: NASA Data Shows Toxic Air Threat Choking Indian Subcontinent

#188

Post by jessriedel »

mikeash wrote: post #26
jessriedel wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Polluted air is a symptom of being poor, and making the reasonable trade off between cost and long-term health risks. China doesn't pollute now because they somehow have to learn valuable lessons in democracy; they pollute because they can't afford the same luxuries we have in the US.

That may be the case sometimes, but I doubt it's the case in China, at least not always. Beijing is fairly wealthy these days, yet is still polluted like crazy. The health impacts are enormous. The reason it persists is because the the costs of cleaning it up are concentrated on a few, while the costs of being exposed are distributed among many, and there's no mechanism to push those costs back onto the responsible p…

>Beijing is fairly wealthy these days, yet is still polluted like crazy....The reason it persists is because the the costs of cleaning it up are concentrated on a few, while the costs of being exposed are distributed among many, and there's no mechanism to push those costs back onto the responsible parties.

I don't know the details, but I suspect my explanation is better. Chinese per capita GDP is $6.8k, which is the equivalent of 1910 USA. Beijing is $10k, which is 1940 USA. Parts of the US had similarly bad or worse smog up into the '40s.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/capital-weather-gang/wp/...

Re: NASA Data Shows Toxic Air Threat Choking Indian Subcontinent

#189

Post by hiram112 »

djsumdog wrote: post #91
stickfigure wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

India doesn't have enough electricity There's something fundamentally broken about this statement, which suggests a deeper problem - why isn't the market for electricity working in India?

The grid in India is pretty broken. My dad had dreams of going back to India to retire, but on his last trip he told me housing was now super expensive, the pollution was still terrible, the air not fit to breath and the water still unsafe to drink. In other countries we take a national grid for granted. In Europe, power can be bought and sold from country to country. India may be lacking in capacity, but even if the…

I'd be interested in knowing if all housing prices in India are going up or just for certain demographics. For example, I'd assume that there is a large burgeoning middle class based on tech / offshoring in places like Bangalore, Hyderabad, etc. And also, there are probably a lot of newly minted millionaires that are involved in politics, finance, etc. - a lot of investment money has gone to India in the last 20 years.

But are the rents even increasing for the majority poor that live in the very cramped areas surrounding most cities? How about the rural population?

I ask because, while it makes sense that places like London, SF, and Vancouver would have huge property price increases due to increases in demand (foreign wealth, start-up success, etc.) it seems very disturbing that more and more areas where wages have simply not risen at all for decades are also going through prices increases.

For example, the rents in the Midwest city I come from have gone up about 50% in the last 7 or 8 years, though housing itself has not. Wages have actually gone down, adjusted for inflation.

Re: NASA Data Shows Toxic Air Threat Choking Indian Subcontinent

#190

Post by enraged_camel »

bthallplz wrote: post #184
antisthenes wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The free market solution to environmental issues has always been "dump it right here", because it completely ignores externalities. You'd have to be insane to even consider that it could be otherwise.

That it always has been some way does not mean that it cannot be otherwise.

What does that even mean? Do you have any examples where the so-called free market has successfully solved this problem?
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