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Why most people don't like jazz

dyske.com

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Re: Why most people don't like jazz

#151

Post by aristoxenus »

anon-e-moose wrote: post #132
aristoxenus wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you noticed how much more sophisticated Lady Gaga's music is than the rest of what's popular these days? Her popularity has nothing to do with that. It's the way she throws in catchy verbal chants and is equally brilliant at visual and personality branding. And she as a great name.

No, I have not. All of her songs sound the same to me, the repeated nonsense stuttering included. And I say this as a person who as listened to thousands of hours of techno/electronica/drum and bass.

I'm not comparing The Fame Monster to the Diabelli variations.

She's (very) commercially successful -- her revenues have surely long since eclipsed the entire D&B economy totalled over time.

Among commercially-successful acts, her product happens to be a lot more richly constructed than the competition. But the Mac isn't loved for it's BSD kernel -- it's the complete package. Gaga's success should be instructive to anyone hoping to make a splash in any industry.

Re: Why most people don't like jazz

#152

Post by mojuba »

dlytle wrote: post #30

There's a difference between being able to appreciate the artistic value of something, and being able to enjoy it. I don't like jazz, and I mostly listen to music where I can't understand the lyrics, or where none exist. Sometimes people just don't enjoy certain genres of music. I'm sure part of it is cultural, but this article seems to portray the inability to enjoy jazz as some sort of cultural failing, and that's…

Jazz as a genre is more complex than virtually any other genre of music. It employs more subtle and more complex harmonies which are usually not used anywhere else, neither are seen in music textbooks. Plus improvisation which essentially is composing on the fly - something not every musician is capable of keeping up and not every listener is capable of understanding. In other words (and this shouldn't be news) jazz is a language that you need to learn in order to enjoy it. That's the point of the article.

(Some parts of jazz though are pretty "accessible", such as Billie and Nina, but if you forget about the lyrics and the emotional side of their art and leave only the music, that for the most part wouldn't be a good example of jazz.)

Re: Why most people don't like jazz

#153

Post by mtalantikite »

dan_sim wrote: post #27

I'm a musician myself who used to play jazz. The problem with jazz is that is considered by the people who listen to it like "pure art" when it is just a style of music. Jazz (and classical) is elevated higher than other form of music and music teachers will expect a good musician to play jazz. If jazz lovers would stop thinking at themselves as "higher educated" and jazz would go back to the people who want enjoy a…

I don't know, the fusion with hip hop has brought out huge crowds of young people over the past couple years to jazz gigs here in NYC. Chris Dave has an unmistakable J Dilla influence in his music -- this show was packed:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6C6higMMMM

You don't necessarily need to go back to swing like Wynton does to get people interested in the music again. We forget that jazz standards were pop tunes back in the day, so it's nice to hear young guys now playing Bjork arrangements or KRS-One tracks.

Re: Why most people don't like jazz

#154

Post by sumeeta »

CodeMage wrote: post #115
snitko wrote: post #3

It's not the problem of lyrics vs words in the first place. It's a problem of lack of musical education. Give a person a guitar or a piano and within a year she starts paying attention to the composition and performing skills. And her tastes may change dramatically too. So in a sense, I consider "listening to words" not as an alternative point of view, but rather a lack of musical training. Sure, words may simply be…

I'm not so sure it's all about education. I've always thought it had a lot to do with "listening talent", that thing which people refer to when they say "He's got a good ear." Of course, this is just my own theory based on my own, personal (and therefore anecdotal) experience. For example, to enjoy a song, I first need to like its music. If the lyrics are in a language I understand, then I need to like them too, but…

I don’t like that you’re drawing a line between talent and education.

I would probably arrogantly classify myself as someone with a “good ear” but because of my experiences with different music and musicians. I often say people think too much when they listen to music when they need to just take it in. But if I didn’t have the same exposure to the music world, I know I wouldn’t be able to do that.

I’m sure the same thing applies to anything you can call art.

Re: Why most people don't like jazz

#156

Post by crux_ »

dan_sim wrote: post #149
crux_ wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, to summarize in an only very slightly trollish way: - The problem with jazz is the people who listen to it. - Music isn't art, or at least it's wrong to appreciate it as such. - Jazz ought to be revivalist, not innovative. Suffice to say, I don't think I can agree...

- The problem with jazz is the people who listen to it. Yes - Music isn't art, or at least it's wrong to appreciate it as such. Music is entertainment and emotions. - Jazz ought to be revivalist, not innovative. Things like free-jazz is not innovative. It is shitty musicians thinking that if they play "out" enough, they might get to the point that people feel they are geniuses. Music is meant to be good to the ears.

> Music is entertainment and emotions.

If that's the case, then I'd say that in WWF vs music, WWF wins every time!

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you think all post-renaissance painting is shit, too.

Re: Why most people don't like jazz

#157

Post by dan_sim »

mtalantikite wrote: post #142
sp332 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wynton Marsalis says "When the music stopped being about dancing, people stopped listening." I never completely bought it, but I like the sentiment anyway :-)

I went out to see Roy Haynes/Roy Hargrove the other night, and he basically said the same thing on stage. Looking out into an audience of mainly dead silent white people, he said something to the extent of: 'I remember when I was playing in Spain some years back with Joe Henderson and Chick Corea, and man the audience gave us no love back. But at the end of the concert a couple thousand of them all put up their light…

Back in the day people would get up and shout when they felt the music. You guys need to give it to us on stage so we can give it back to you, it goes two ways

That's the main problem. Jazzmen are expecting their audience to make the show and only then, they will give them a show back. That should be the other way. Musician are there to make the show, then the audience connect with them and the show becomes a whole.

Re: Why most people don't like jazz

#158

Post by jff »

superjohan wrote: post #124
philwelch wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"He loves some of the shittiest songs (imo) because of interesting lyrical content, where as I totally ignore them. If I like them it's because of how they were sung not because of me diving through looking for "meaning"." Yes, this. One of the reasons I love metal is because a great metal vocalist like Dickinson or Dio just plain sounds awesome, no matter what he's going on about.

It wasn't until after I started playing Rock Band with friends that I noticed that a whole lot of lyrics in general are completely inane. (count me in as one of those guys that never listen to the lyrics)

What's so inane about "Ride the tiger / You can see his stripes but you know he's clean"? Pretty deep to me.

Seriously, though, I'm a fan of Blue Oyster Cult's lyrics, which can range from pretty nonsensical (She's as Beautiful as a Foot) to basically the straightforward relation of a story (Then Came the Last Days of May).

Re: Why most people don't like jazz

#159

Post by jff »

michael_dorfman wrote: post #13
bryanh wrote: post #5

Not that I entirely agree with this article, but as a jazz musician, it definitely interests me. I am curious though; when was the last time everyone listened to an entire album while doing nothing else? (no driving, surfing, working, etc...)

Seriously? Two nights ago, my back was aching so I laid down on the (heated) bathroom floor and listened to "Between Nothingess & Eternity" (by the Mahavishnu Orchestra) on my iPhone. I can't say I've had the chance since, umm, the kids were born, but there aren't too many better ways to spend a Sunday morning than laying in bed listening to Van Morrison. Do people really not do this anymore? If I strolled around a U…

On a weekend night, I have been known to get a bit drunk and put on some Pink Floyd, sometimes on vinyl if I have the album I want. So yeah, some of us uni kids still listen to the full albums.

But not the Grateful Dead. You hear "Friend of the Devil" and "Casey Jones" and think, oh hey, these guys are pretty good. Then you hear pretty much anything else they've ever done and realize that most of it is a session where everyone was too wasted to remember when to stop the song.

Re: Why most people don't like jazz

#160

Post by CodeMage »

sumeeta wrote: post #154
CodeMage wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not so sure it's all about education. I've always thought it had a lot to do with "listening talent", that thing which people refer to when they say "He's got a good ear." Of course, this is just my own theory based on my own, personal (and therefore anecdotal) experience. For example, to enjoy a song, I first need to like its music. If the lyrics are in a language I understand, then I need to like them too, but…

I don’t like that you’re drawing a line between talent and education. I would probably arrogantly classify myself as someone with a “good ear” but because of my experiences with different music and musicians. I often say people think too much when they listen to music when they need to just take it in . But if I didn’t have the same exposure to the music world, I know I wouldn’t be able to do that. I’m sure the same…

Nothing says the ear can't be trained. But there's always innate capacity you start with. Your talent (or ability, if your wish) depends on both. That's why I said "I'm not so sure it's all about education", the key word being "all".
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