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NASA Data Shows Toxic Air Threat Choking Indian Subcontinent

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Re: NASA Data Shows Toxic Air Threat Choking Indian Subcontinent

#51

Post by jdietrich »

mahranch wrote: post #16
mikeash wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone living in the US who visits China every couple of years, I would really love to see China clean up their act (the pollution has become by far my #1 dislike), but I would really hate to see the US loosen pollution regulations because of some weird idea that we shouldn't bother cleaning up our air unless everybody else does too. I love the fact that when we have air quality warnings, I can't even tell the di…

I don't think his point was that we should loosen our restrictions, but re-direct our attention on the biggest abusers. Right now that's China. And it's not even close. You would need to combine the emissions of the U.S, India and the entirety of the European Union to equal China's annual CO2 emissions. See for yourself: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_di... Basically, China emits as much CO…

Your own link shows that China's per-capita CO2 emissions are half that of the US. It is rank hypocrisy to say that a Chinese person has less right to pollute than an American.

Re: NASA Data Shows Toxic Air Threat Choking Indian Subcontinent

#52

Post by at-fates-hands »

HenryTheHorse wrote: post #15

That satellite image of the haze is scary. Scarier still is how the deterioration of air quality in the cities is affecting health. (The WHO estimates ~15 million bronchial asthma patients in India.) You haven't experienced air pollution if you haven't breathed in the evening air in Mumbai or Bangalore during the rush hour.

>> You haven't experienced air pollution if you haven't breathed in the evening air in Mumbai or Bangalore during the rush hour.

Economically, it may be a good sign that 1,400 new cars are added to Delhi's vehicle population every day.

According to the Centre for Science and Environment, the number of passenger cars in Delhi has gone up from around 75,000 in 2005-06 to more than half a million today.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/delhi/40-of-vehicles...

The pollution makes sense when you start to understand how many cars they are putting on the roads every day with no sign of letting up. They have recently said they want the whole country to have nothing but electric cars by 2030.

Re: NASA Data Shows Toxic Air Threat Choking Indian Subcontinent

#53

Post by chdir »

wrong_variable wrote: post #42

The Irony ! When I went to India, I though to my-self the living standard in the villages were HIGHER then the cities. The air in the villages were clean - it was much cooler weather due to not being trapped in the congested cities. The village people though I was crazy to think that their village was a paradise, and everyone wanted to move to the city. I think its a serious lack of education that India/Bangladesh wi…

Vehicular pollution, construction dust, diesel generators are a common problem in almost all big cities in India.

However you are looking at the advantages of villages as a visitor with a point of view towards being closer to nature. There are other problems in villages that you probably won't encounter unless you live there on a day to day basis. Finally, grass is always greener on the other side (holds true for both villages & city dwellers).

> A large number of people need to die due to cancer for it be taken seriously

Cancer isn't uncommon in villages and city pollution isn't the only cause.

Re: NASA Data Shows Toxic Air Threat Choking Indian Subcontinent

#54

Post by wrong_variable »

chdir wrote: post #53
wrong_variable wrote: post #42

The Irony ! When I went to India, I though to my-self the living standard in the villages were HIGHER then the cities. The air in the villages were clean - it was much cooler weather due to not being trapped in the congested cities. The village people though I was crazy to think that their village was a paradise, and everyone wanted to move to the city. I think its a serious lack of education that India/Bangladesh wi…

Vehicular pollution, construction dust, diesel generators are a common problem in almost all big cities in India. However you are looking at the advantages of villages as a visitor with a point of view towards being closer to nature. There are other problems in villages that you probably won't encounter unless you live there on a day to day basis. Finally, grass is always greener on the other side (holds true for bot…

True, I think if you lived in the village it would be hard for you to escape it and get highly educated.

For that you prolly need to move to a big city, but from my immediate reasoning, I could work remotely from the village for the rest of my life as a programmer and could have a higher standard of living then being in the city.

But I guess that is due to the nature of my job, rather than anything.

Re: NASA Data Shows Toxic Air Threat Choking Indian Subcontinent

#55

Post by yummyfajitas »

dv_dt wrote: post #46
hammock wrote: post #22

Dare we suggest that air pollution (the old-fashioned kind) is more important than global warming?

I look at as as Climate change being caused by air pollution (of CO2 & certain other gasses). The old fashioned air pollution is more localized, but isn't completely localized - acid rain was/is a regional air pollution issue for example. Some of the particulates generated on the other side of the world certainly do travel here on air currents, not in high amounts, but if they carry potent pollution items, it may hav…

A better way to phrase the parent's comment, which doesn't deliberately obscure the point: "Dare we suggest that particulates are more important than CO2?"

Re: NASA Data Shows Toxic Air Threat Choking Indian Subcontinent

#57

Post by mikeash »

maxerickson wrote: post #34
mikeash wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are not talking about CO2 emissions here....

You did write If we're talking about reducing CO2 emissions, then yes, further cutting emissions in the US is probably not going to do much good compared to putting similar effort into China. I think it's fair to point out that the US cutting emissions could have a larger impact than China limiting increases (at least on a per capita basis).

The only relevant question for that part is: for each dollar spent (or other measure of wealth/effort), how much reduction do you get in each place?

I'd wager that you get much more bang for your buck in China. The US is much more efficient at generating wealth from CO2 emissions: our emissions are about half, while our GDP is somewhat larger. China still has a lot of low-hanging fruit when it comes to cutting CO2 emissions.

In any case, per-capita doesn't matter at all unless you want to come at it from a moral angle.

Re: NASA Data Shows Toxic Air Threat Choking Indian Subcontinent

#58

Post by InclinedPlane »

jdietrich wrote: post #45
hammock wrote: post #22

Dare we suggest that air pollution (the old-fashioned kind) is more important than global warming?

The solution to both is essentially the same - burn less fuel, more efficiently. The old environmentalist motto "think global, act local" is quite apposite.

The US and Western Europe burn far more fuel today than they did in the 1960s, but have vastly cleaner air than they did then. Efficiency and reduction of use are not sufficient to improve air quality. In fact, big diesel engines and big coal fired power plants can be some of the most efficient methods of using energy while still being tremendously polluting. The problem is primarily particulates, sulfur, NOx, and carbon monoxide, all of which can be controlled if the proper systems are used.

Re: NASA Data Shows Toxic Air Threat Choking Indian Subcontinent

#59

Post by ams6110 »

jessriedel wrote: post #11
mc32 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Polluted air is a symptom of a system which has little regulation over industrial and commercial waste. This means that while we suffer from the air, they will suffer from all kinds of water and soil pollution. They are inflicting grave health wounds upon themselves (like we did to ourselves earlier). We can hope the people will demand a cleaner environment from the government and industry.

Polluted air is a symptom of being poor, and making the reasonable trade off between cost and long-term health risks. China doesn't pollute now because they somehow have to learn valuable lessons in democracy; they pollute because they can't afford the same luxuries we have in the US.

It's also a symptom of corrupt communist governments.

Re: NASA Data Shows Toxic Air Threat Choking Indian Subcontinent

#60

Post by chdir »

A related story : There's a mega mall in Chandigarh, India that wasn't given approval for a power connection for quite some time (politics / corruption).

Real estate is super expensive & the owners couldn't afford to sit idle and play games with the government so they decided to run the mall from morning till night on diesel generators. That's ~ $4500 of diesel each day, probably 6-8k litres. This is an example of a pollution source that's completely avoidable. I'm not sure for how many years this continued on.

What's worse is that there was no widespread public outrage. Why didn't people boycott the mall that's polluting their city and at the same time put pressure on the government to set things right ?

For a perspective, the city I'm talking about is a modern affluent city, close to Delhi (~ 160 miles). Home to a lot of politicians & celebrities, one of the most well planned cities in the world [1] & one of the cleanest in India [2]

[1] http://www.indiatimes.com/culture/travel/9-most-well-planned...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleanest_cities_in_India

[3] http://www.tribuneindia.com/2013/20130407/cth1.htm#5

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