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Why most people don't like jazz

dyske.com

101–110 of 235 posts

Re: Why most people don't like jazz

#101
post #90
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't start listening to lyrics until I was in my mid twenties and I have no musical talent or education. When I heard The Beatles Imagine was banned in some places, I thought, "Why? It's just a song." And then years later I actually listened to it and understood. One of my girlfriends told me, "I've started listening to jazz, I really like it!" So for her birthday, I got her "Kind of Blue" and she hated it. Shock…

"Imagine" is a song by John Lennon, during his solo career, not a Beatles song.

blush I wasn't even born when it came out, that's my excuse, but it resonated with me when I finally "got" it.

Re: Why most people don't like jazz

#102
post #43
post #27

I'm a musician myself who used to play jazz. The problem with jazz is that is considered by the people who listen to it like "pure art" when it is just a style of music. Jazz (and classical) is elevated higher than other form of music and music teachers will expect a good musician to play jazz. If jazz lovers would stop thinking at themselves as "higher educated" and jazz would go back to the people who want enjoy a…

Wynton Marsalis says "When the music stopped being about dancing, people stopped listening." I never completely bought it, but I like the sentiment anyway :-)

That's a great way to put it.

It's not dancing per se, it's the idea of writing with the listener in mind.

When you write only for audiophiles, you write for a small audience.

Re: Why most people don't like jazz

#103
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you tried listening to Shostakovich? He was moderately successful at blending jazz and classical elements, as well as at polarizing critics in the process.

Or that Jazz Flute Suite record by Bolling & Rampal.

One of my favorite records :-) I also like Bolling's Suite for Chamber Orchestra and Jazz Piano Trio.

Re: Why most people don't like jazz

#104
post #5

Not that I entirely agree with this article, but as a jazz musician, it definitely interests me. I am curious though; when was the last time everyone listened to an entire album while doing nothing else? (no driving, surfing, working, etc...)

Earlier today, in fact. But it's not so much the attention span thing that gets in the way (I play reeds, by the way) but the intellectual masturbation of a lot of jazz that turns people off. I've yet to run into anybody who turns their nose up at, say, Dave Brubeck's "Time Out", which is certainly rhythmically sophisticated but tuneful, or Kenny Burrell's "Midnight Blue" (an album that's usually the first up for vis…

And there is also a good amount of jazz music with lyrics. In fact, there is very little music out there in any genre that has the lyrical heft that Jon Hendricks or Kurt Elling have in their denser vocaleses.

But yeah, on your first point there, I remember a big double-bill concert around here about ten years ago. The first half was fairly traditional jazz, well-attended and apparently well-liked. The second performer's music could best be described as a quick, semi-recognizable head followed by minutes of endless sixteenth notes without any appreciable (to me, anyway) form or structure. There was obviously an incredible amount of skill on display, but I found it unimaginably boring. I wasn't alone: after about ten minutes of the second half, there was a steady stream of people getting up and leaving during the performance. So did I eventually.

Re: Why most people don't like jazz

#105
post #43
post #27

I'm a musician myself who used to play jazz. The problem with jazz is that is considered by the people who listen to it like "pure art" when it is just a style of music. Jazz (and classical) is elevated higher than other form of music and music teachers will expect a good musician to play jazz. If jazz lovers would stop thinking at themselves as "higher educated" and jazz would go back to the people who want enjoy a…

Wynton Marsalis says "When the music stopped being about dancing, people stopped listening." I never completely bought it, but I like the sentiment anyway :-)

Dance music is alive and well, it just doesn't sound like jazz anymore. Being a type of music that emphasizes the here and now (that is, the dance floor), why should the music producers use production techniques and instruments of a bygone era?

Also, if we're looking at the big picture of "the story of american music", disco very much comes from the same lineage as jazz.

Re: Why most people don't like jazz

#106
post #5

Not that I entirely agree with this article, but as a jazz musician, it definitely interests me. I am curious though; when was the last time everyone listened to an entire album while doing nothing else? (no driving, surfing, working, etc...)

The last time I can recall listening to an entire album while doing absolutely nothing else was 1995. (Jethro Tull, "Roots to Branches")

Re: Why most people don't like jazz

#107
post #5

Not that I entirely agree with this article, but as a jazz musician, it definitely interests me. I am curious though; when was the last time everyone listened to an entire album while doing nothing else? (no driving, surfing, working, etc...)

>>when was the last time you listened to an entire album before while doing nothing else?

An excellent and resonant question... It makes me think of generally how our relationship to music has changed over the past 20 years.

I have often thought of the jazz of the 1950's as being about as good as it gets when it comes to American cultural production. Take the production of Mingus and Monk as examples and you have two very different kinds of genius that produced challenging music to listen to.

It is really hard to listen to that music and do something else. Except ride subways - back in the late 80's living in Brooklyn used to listen to CDs while barrelling home at night on the G train or L train... But is demands your attention in a different way and can frankly at times be upsetting to listen to.

In the right (or wrong) frame of mind a song like Monk's version of "The man I love" or Sarah Vaughn's "April in Paris" or Mingus' "Ecclusiastics" can unhinge me -

And even when the Jazz is more popular in orientation - if it is good it bears repeated listenings. "kind of Blue" - despite being overplayed stands up. The "Ella and Louis" albums likewise. That stuff is way overplayed and yet you can listen to it and get something new out of it.

On the other hand most music today is designed to be what Tom Waits describes in the intro to "Better off without a wife", music that is:

"... you know, you put a little nice music on. Maybe you put on like... you know... like shopping music, something that's not too interruptive..."

Most music is designed to not interrupt the flow of commerce, not it interrupt advertising but to fall in line in a supporting role.

I am old enough to remember a time in which it seemed that some music was immune to commercialization. I know this sounds naive - and it is. It was very disturbing for me to see the Rolling Stones selling cars or Iggy Pop selling cruises. Or seeing pictures of Jack Kerouac in a Gap jeans ad. And yet I can see now that in most cases (Rolling Stones, etc) that it I was just a logical extension of the form itself. There was no real transgression - just my frame of mind.

There is a radio show on my local NPR (WNYC) - and I think it is syndicated on Sirius. Jonathan Schwartz - "American Songbook" or something like that. I find the music not mostly to my taste (he is a big Sinatra fan) but to hear Schwartz talk about songs and instrumentation and specifics of a performance (the drummer had a cold that day, etc, etc) and it is the closest that I listen to music in the course of a week. I really love the guy's ethos (if I can only take and hour or so of the show.)

On a different tangent - when I was back in college (late 80's- early 90's) I had a friend who was an audiophile. He had ridiculous equipment especially for a dorm/student apartment. Dedicated mono amps for each stereo channel, finely balanced belt driven turntables. We would listen to recordings and he would point out things like the low bass rumbling of the subway passing by Carnegie Hall. Or how in the dark you could almost visualize the spacial arrangement of a string quartet.

To be honest I am not that musical and most of the times the things he discussed went over my head. The one thing that I could hear at the time was the difference between digital recording and analog on his system.

But for me it was an object lesson in the specificity of a performance that is often lost today. And those days sitting in the dark with my friend might be the last time I really listened to an album...

Re: Why most people don't like jazz

#108
post #45
post #6

An interesting corollary is that jazz musicians tend to not have as striking an image when it comes to their marketing. Compare what you first visualize when you hear the names KISS or Flava Flav versus say Brad Mehldau or Keith Jarrett. EDIT: This is probably due to jazz musicians taking themselves more seriously and wanting to be known more for their music than anything else. If a jazz artist enlisted Dir En Grey's…

More like Jazz marketing got undercut by the popularization of cool. That used to be half the marketing: they were superhuman levels of cool. Untouchable. Today's Jazz musicians are just nerdy.

Quite. There's a snobby attitude in many areas of art that fun = not serious, which drives me crazy. By fun I don't mean comic, but emotionally engaging.

Same in theater. I've seen umpteen productions of Macbeth resembling a 3-hour funeral because Shakesperian tragedy is Serious Business. The best production I ever saw had no set and cheap costumes, but Lady Macbeth was greedy slut, Banquo was a snotty jerk, Macduff was a vengeful maniac, and Macbeth himself was a gullible, venal coward. The tickets were cheap, the theater was shabby, but instead of a literature class we got a bunch of foulmouthed armed sociopaths fighting over possession of a shitheap. It was the best action movie I've ever seen.

Don't settle for bad art. If you get bored, tear up your ticket and walk out.

Re: Why most people don't like jazz

#109
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was under the impression that a musical is a spoken word play where the actors break out into song and dance on a regular basis, whereas in an opera the singers rarely dance or speak. If that is the case, the difference between musicals and opera is more than just the language. and actually supports the author's point that American culture needs visual stimulation (the dance) and words they can easily understand (t…

"Joseph and the amazing technicolor dreamcoat" is entirely sung (Well, apart from "and I don't speak Egyptian very well"), but is usually referred to as a musical. Maybe just marketing though. Personally I usually expect opera to mean a particular style of singing more than anything else.

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Re: Why most people don't like jazz

#110
post #63
post #44

I thought I was the only one who didn't pay attention to lyrics. My friend and I kinda of resemble that dynamic. He loves some of the shittiest songs (imo) because of interesting lyrical content, where as I totally ignore them. If I like them it's because of how they were sung not because of me diving through looking for "meaning". That's why after all these years Pinback is still one of my favorite bands. Their voic…

I also don't really listen to lyrics, largely because it is hard for me. I think I actually have some sort of perceptual incapacity -- I have to really try to understand them, whereas it seems other people hear them very easily. Even when I try, it's hard. I'm smart in other ways, but in this regard I am comparatively deficient. Anybody else on HN share this 'syndrome'? For me, music has always been about structure,…

Yes, I share that syndrome, though it depends on the artist. I'm convinced the reason that there are so many passionate haters of Coldplay out there is because they're focusing on the lyrics, which are totally vague and, IMO, just written as another component of overall aesthetic.

On the other hand, I can't listen to Bob Dylan or Eminem [1] without hearing the lyrics, because in their case the music is really just there as a scaffolding for the words.

[1] How's that for a juxtaposition?

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