Rats free each other from cages (2011) • Hacker News Board

Re: Rats free each other from cages (2011)

#171

Post by d0100 » Tue, Jul 05, 2016, 1:24 PM UTC

fao_ wrote: post #46

d0100 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If an animal can't communicate complex thought, he is just an animal. No matter how "smart" or "emotionally developed" they appear. Until then it's just instinct. And if the day ever arrives, it can just be seen as an evolutionary step for the species, and not as proof that they where intelligent all along.

Define 'complex', and 'communicate'. Are deaf and blind people "just animals", no matter how -your quotes- "smart" or "emotionally developed" they appear?

No need to stretch what I said. Communicate has a well defined meaning: share or exchange information, news, or ideas. And 'complex' was used to exclude what I consider instinctual feelings/thoughts: anger, hunger, love, happiness, obedience, etc.

The deaf and blind can communicate. And even in the case of a human vegetable, a broken table is still a table.

Re: Rats free each other from cages (2011)

#172

Post by internaut » Tue, Jul 05, 2016, 9:44 PM UTC

ZeroFries wrote: post #77

internaut wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just as we have Seed Banks in the world, I believe we ought to have Animal Arks. These are very large open habitats with difficult to pass barriers. Little human involvement is permitted and trespassing carries an instantaneous death penalty. I see this as the only plausible way to prevent the disappearance of Rhino, Elephant, Cheetah and many other animals that you had plastic toys of when you were a child. Those an…

Instantaneous death penalty? Glad you're not in charge...

I imagine it to be a cross between Jurassic Park and The Hunger Games. The predators shall of course be located at the peripheral. If the robots don't get them, the swimming knives will. With reality TV we may even turn a profit!

To be serious, there is no real plan to prevent the level of poaching from killing off most large land mammals. I've been helping the Hoedspruit Endangered Species Centre and the Pangolin Specialist Group but most people in the field don't really believe this is a sustainable long term objective for conservation. The scale of predation by humans is simply too high for anything less than drastic action to prevent the extinction of most large land mammals.

Re: Rats free each other from cages (2011)

#173

Post by fao_ » Wed, Jul 06, 2016, 12:41 PM UTC

d0100 wrote: post #171

fao_ wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Define 'complex', and 'communicate'. Are deaf and blind people "just animals", no matter how -your quotes- "smart" or "emotionally developed" they appear?

No need to stretch what I said. Communicate has a well defined meaning: share or exchange information, news, or ideas. And 'complex' was used to exclude what I consider instinctual feelings/thoughts: anger, hunger, love, happiness, obedience, etc. The deaf and blind can communicate. And even in the case of a human vegetable, a broken table is still a table.

I'm actually not stretching it, I was demonstrating that your limitations either exclude humans or include animals.

What your limitations seem to ignore is that not only does most of our day-to-day behaviour fall under what you consider instinctive, but also that you seem to be ignoring the fact that many animals communicate in languages you might not necessarily be able to understand (Dogs, for example, communicate mostly in body language, looks, etc.).

Can you state an example of a complex thought? I can think of a fair amount of thoughts I would use to denote intelligence that would fall under what you consider 'instinctual'.