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The employees shut inside coffins

bbc.com

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Re: The employees shut inside coffins

#71

Post by jessaustin »

aab0 wrote: post #63
nxzero wrote: post #19

Is anyone in South Korea able to comment on why there's such a high sucide rate? According two Wikipedia, it's ranked number #2 in the world and double the rate of sucide of America: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide...

One theory is Durkheim's suicide hypothesis: South Korea's industrial development has ripped apart the traditional society (already badly damaged by the country's partition and the Korean War), and social norms and society have not yet consolidated on new adaptive ways https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=durkheim+suicide+south+... If so, we can hope that SK will gradually improve, especially if they can figure out h…

This is interesting, to treat a high suicide rate as a symptom of some other problem, rather than the main problem in and of itself. I wish these fancy American social scientists were capable of taking a similar look at USA, but alas it's all beams and motes.

Re: The employees shut inside coffins

#72

Post by jackmaney »

coldcode wrote: post #26

Before looking at the article I thought it was a new office layout. No more cube farms, no more open layout, now we put people into little work coffins.

I had the same impression. I then imagined some marketing douchebag trying to sell the C-level suits on the idea of a "Three Inch Punch of Productivity".

Re: The employees shut inside coffins

#73

Post by stcredzero »

paulojreis wrote: post #10
tonyle wrote: post #8

At first I thought it was some employer gone crazy. Halfway down, I realize it's just like any other big company tactics. Some upper management suggest all employees practice positive thinking, offering a course on how do deal with stress, forced laughter, etc. Then I wondered how common this practice was for a company to offer this to their employees in the same way a company would offer free massages or therapy. Se…

Personally, I thinks it's way, way past any acceptable measure to improve positive thinking and engagement. It's closer to a shock tactic than to any new-age /*spiritual "put life into perspective" thing. Really, it's just too deliberately traumatic.

It's closer to a shock tactic than to any new-age/spiritual "put life into perspective" thing.*

Actually, things like "Est" often used shock tactics, and were deliberately traumatic. (Though only slightly in the vast scheme of things.)

Re: The employees shut inside coffins

#74

Post by stcredzero »

FuNe wrote: post #41
coldcode wrote: post #26

Before looking at the article I thought it was a new office layout. No more cube farms, no more open layout, now we put people into little work coffins.

Not far from truth. Not far at all for many of us. PS: Some good ole Pink Floyd music would suit this as well.

How about the old M.A.S.H theme song?

Re: The employees shut inside coffins

#75

Post by ambicapter »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #42
orblivion wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I know what it's for, and I can appreciate that aspect. I just know it's been used on me and had that effect.

Steinbeck (in Grapes of Wrath?) had a character recite the 5 levels of moral development. It went something like this: 1) I don't want to get in trouble 2) I want to please someone 3) I want to follow the rules 4) I want to help other people and the highest level, 5) I have a personal moral code, and I abide by it He explained these as levels we reach with age - entering school at age 5 or 6 we first hide from troubl…

Shit, I'm stuck at 3. This is bad.

Re: The employees shut inside coffins

#76

Post by ambicapter »

kriro wrote: post #22
jagermo wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regarding Healthcare, this wikipedia entry sums it up pretty good: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Germany Regarding the worker rights: Not only do you get a decent amount of holidays (around 30 in most companies, with additional free days for parents), but you can also take up to 14 months leave after childbirth (both father and mother, but combined not 14 months each and one person has to take at least…

The getting fired part is a two sided sword though. I have to give notice up to 6 month in advance (I don't know the exact number it's a bit complicated). In theory I can dissolve my contract ("Auflösungsvertrag") on the spot but my employer has to agree to that. It's generally a good idea to have longer periods of job security but for someone who can (in theory) get rehired quickly the laws can get in the way, too.…

This is basically the obvious flipside of having these sort of rules. See also, "I wish my business didn't have to follow as many worker regulations so I could make more money faster".

Re: The employees shut inside coffins

#77

Post by nostrademons »

stcredzero wrote: post #67

My Korean mom mentions dying all the time. It's not unusual for her to manage to come out with "being born...is a license to die! " (complete with pointed finger) in the middle of a conversation. One of her favorite superlatives is "Oh, it was so [adjective] I was going to die!" She'd also often use the equivalent of, "would it have killed you? No, you should kill it!" I have no idea if this is a Korean thing, or if…

I think that many Confucian cultures feature a general sense of shame, fatalism, and inevitable death that is coupled with a specific drive toward self-improvement and seizing the day. We're all imperfect beings who are going to die eventually, so might as well live it up when you can. At least, that's the message I get from my Chinese father.

Many American-Christian cultures, by contrast, have a general sense of optimism, redemption, eternalism, and a belief that the future will be better than the past, coupled with specific feelings of guilt, irresponsibility, and imperfection. God loves us and He will forgive our sins, as long as we accept Him into our hearts. And so this drive to master the world before it masters us is not so strong, because the world is fundamentally benevolent. At least that was the message I got from my Irish-Catholic maternal grandfather.

The juxtaposition of the two belief systems is very striking, if you're exposed to both, and can lead to many misunderstandings. I remember being so frustrated with my dad and his constant pronouncements that the world was about to end in 3 weeks, a belief that, when I mention it to American friends, is considered outright paranoia. But having grown up a bit and married a Taiwanese-American woman who once lived in rural Peru, it's interesting to compare different cultures and their fundamental beliefs. This belief that we're eternally dying doesn't seem to faze most Asians; they just accept it and go about their life.

It's also interesting to see how quickly many Asians adopt Christianity once they immigrate to the West. I've got both family members and in-laws who have gone that route; I'd imagine that the promise of eternal salvation when coming from a culture that has this constant background message of inevitable death and societal decay must be pretty attractive.

Re: The employees shut inside coffins

#78

Post by nostrademons »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #42
orblivion wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I know what it's for, and I can appreciate that aspect. I just know it's been used on me and had that effect.

Steinbeck (in Grapes of Wrath?) had a character recite the 5 levels of moral development. It went something like this: 1) I don't want to get in trouble 2) I want to please someone 3) I want to follow the rules 4) I want to help other people and the highest level, 5) I have a personal moral code, and I abide by it He explained these as levels we reach with age - entering school at age 5 or 6 we first hide from troubl…

Interestingly, this mirrors Kohlberg's stages of moral development, though Kohlberg was a child when Grapes of Wrath came out.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_Kohlberg%27s_stages_o...

The one missing stage is #2, self-interest, which in this framing would be "I want to please myself."

Re: The employees shut inside coffins

#79

Post by joonhocho »

Korean here. Korea is too competitive, and its system is so corrupt that younger people are feeling hopeless and committing suicide. For them, it's the last resort and the only way out of their misery. It's been many years since Korea has taken its place as no.1 in suicidal rate. It's currently the worst time for the younger generations with very high unemployment rate and very low wages ($5 minimum wage while average housing price in Seoul is hitting its record high around $500k). Yet, what people with power and money are trying is to blame them for not having a "strong" and "positive" mindset. I once watched a TV show where they gathered up people with failed suicide attempts. They end up saying "love yourself". Instead of fixing obvious systematic problems, they always blame the poor people and tell them things like "money doesn't buy you a happiness." and "love is a cure to every problem". It just makes me so angry.

EDIT: They also say things like "Be more appreciative that you were not born in North Korea!"

Re: The employees shut inside coffins

#80

Post by Dirlewanger »

tonyle wrote: post #8

At first I thought it was some employer gone crazy. Halfway down, I realize it's just like any other big company tactics. Some upper management suggest all employees practice positive thinking, offering a course on how do deal with stress, forced laughter, etc. Then I wondered how common this practice was for a company to offer this to their employees in the same way a company would offer free massages or therapy. Se…

This seems like a classic example of treating the symptom and not the cause. The articles doesn't go into too much as to why the workers are feeling stressed. I'm guessing Korea has a similar insane work culture like Japan's?

If so, given the existentiality of this issue, the fact that the company is handling this is scary.

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