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CSS is powerful, you can do a lot of things without JS

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Re: CSS is powerful, you can do a lot of things without JS

#91

Post by achairapart »

code_research wrote: post #86

I am missing one important argument in this discussion: CSS only design is an important piece of a future web with reduced security and privacy threads. The (interesting) model of allowing remote code execution per default was a beautiful, but naive vision. We have to make big advances in technology, politics and society to make this model work in a way that does not make internet users victims by default. We are not…

What do you exactly mean with "remote-execution-by-default"? As far as I know, all browsers have strict "same-origin" policies by default.

Re: CSS is powerful, you can do a lot of things without JS

#92

Post by clarry »

harryf wrote: post #81
achairapart wrote: post #54

Most of these are just clever CSS hacks. There is a website collecting these kind of experiments since the early '00: http://www.cssplay.co.uk/ There was a time when separation of concerns and the "Rule of Least Power"[0] where the foundation principles of web development. Today you have preprocessors, postprocessors, transpilers, content and style in JavaScript, behavior in CSS. Very powerful tools that can easily l…

Hmmm... .accordion .content { padding:0 10px; overflow:hidden; border:1px solid #fff; -webkit-transition: all .5s ease-out; -moz-transition: all .5s ease-out; } -webkit-transition, -moz-transition... it's like we're at 180 degrees to where the web was in the days of IE4-6

Remember when Good Developers would hate on framesets because they break the back button and linking and everything?

Now it's totally OK to break all that with AJAX and "text-as-apps"... I much prefer the days of the old web.

Re: CSS is powerful, you can do a lot of things without JS

#93

Post by imafish »

In my opinion, using Cascading StyleSheets for this stuff is just broken. Animations are not styles. Behavior is not a style.

Readability and usability of animations could be improved by adding animation tags to the HTML Canvas (like WPF Storyboards: http://www.codeproject.com/Articles/364529/Animation-using-S...).

The view behavior-part could be done like WPF triggers. In fact let's just get rid of HTML/CSS and implement WPF for the browser.

Re: CSS is powerful, you can do a lot of things without JS

#94

Post by scrollaway »

tommorris wrote: post #90
scrollaway wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a lot more to this than just "a little delay" to avoid accidental triggers. Good menus are complex. In desktop toolkits, there is a lot of logic to ensure they are accessible and don't behave in annoying ways. For example, a high quality menu will have a certain leeway to trigger into and out of submenus so that you don't accidentally drift into the incorrect submenu should you make an error of a couple of pi…

> 0.001% that doesn't use JS https://gds.blog.gov.uk/2013/10/21/how-many-people-are-missi... 1.1% of users don't see JavaScript enhancements. Most because it doesn't load, not because they've disabled it. Also, some people use browsers that don't support JavaScript, or their ISP filters JavaScript, or a whole bunch of other things. I'm not endorsing making menus in CSS. I'm just saying that it isn't "accessibility vs…

That article is very nice but you're not reading it correctly if your takeaway is that "1.1% of users would benefit more from a CSS menu than from a JS menu". GDS is the UK government - a large portion of that 1.1% is likely not loading the CSS either. Bots, crawlers, rss readers, etc. The 0.2% number is much closer to what you're looking for.

And to repeat: Those that disable javascript have a choice in the matter. Accessibility isn't a matter of choice.

Re: CSS is powerful, you can do a lot of things without JS

#95

Post by izym »

icebraining wrote: post #62
nurettin wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Building web applications with screens that have complex workflows and state is a need that is largely ignored by browsers and web standards. Instead of getting reusable gui components we get indechiperable css hacks that were built for creating art installations on the web rather than getting any actual work done.

Mozilla (including Firefox) had XUL, but nobody cared.

Was it ever meant for general web usage?

Re: CSS is powerful, you can do a lot of things without JS

#96

Post by toomanythings3 »

achairapart wrote: post #54

Most of these are just clever CSS hacks. There is a website collecting these kind of experiments since the early '00: http://www.cssplay.co.uk/ There was a time when separation of concerns and the "Rule of Least Power"[0] where the foundation principles of web development. Today you have preprocessors, postprocessors, transpilers, content and style in JavaScript, behavior in CSS. Very powerful tools that can easily l…

The W3C's job is to standardize implementations. Most standards bodies do not invent on their own. In any case, a standards body will generate the fundamentals allowing the ability to piece together components to create what a developer wants. No standards body is able to come up with every desire of every developer.

Re: CSS is powerful, you can do a lot of things without JS

#97

Post by nikolay »

zepolen wrote: post #82
nikolay wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are HN guidelines, and there's also the English grammar with a plethora of tools to help those with a mother tongue different than English like myself. HN is not a chatroom - it's a news website.

You are missing semicolons in there.

My sentence is fine according to Grammarly, LanguageTool, and Word. So, can you be more specific, please? Anyway, I was talking about basic rules that even idiots should get right.

Re: CSS is powerful, you can do a lot of things without JS

#98

Post by toomanythings3 »

code_research wrote: post #86

I am missing one important argument in this discussion: CSS only design is an important piece of a future web with reduced security and privacy threads. The (interesting) model of allowing remote code execution per default was a beautiful, but naive vision. We have to make big advances in technology, politics and society to make this model work in a way that does not make internet users victims by default. We are not…

Why does every discussion on HN and reddit, about every topic, required to bring up privacy, spying and government intrusion? Including this one which is similar to discussing the use of crayons for a coloring book.

Re: CSS is powerful, you can do a lot of things without JS

#99

Post by [deleted] »

code_research wrote: post #86

I am missing one important argument in this discussion: CSS only design is an important piece of a future web with reduced security and privacy threads. The (interesting) model of allowing remote code execution per default was a beautiful, but naive vision. We have to make big advances in technology, politics and society to make this model work in a way that does not make internet users victims by default. We are not…

[deleted]

Re: CSS is powerful, you can do a lot of things without JS

#100

Post by code_research »

achairapart wrote: post #91
code_research wrote: post #86

I am missing one important argument in this discussion: CSS only design is an important piece of a future web with reduced security and privacy threads. The (interesting) model of allowing remote code execution per default was a beautiful, but naive vision. We have to make big advances in technology, politics and society to make this model work in a way that does not make internet users victims by default. We are not…

What do you exactly mean with "remote-execution-by-default"? As far as I know, all browsers have strict "same-origin" policies by default.

"remote-execution-by-default": web browsers execute code that was loaded from an untrusted source somewhere on the internet. Every (ok, most) browsers by default allow any website you visit to execute JavaScript code in your browser.

"same origin" is about the source of that code, only of minor relevance here as long as no working signed code distribution mechanism and infrastructure exists - why not, btw, after all these years?

For communications and general information transmission we do not need remote code execution.

Yes, browsers try to do that in a "safe way" - the "sandboxing" approach has been exercised for many years now, mostly without success. Maybe Qubes OS can be a successful approach to this problem, but we still have too many non-technical problems to solve, as reality shows, so enough time to do more research. Until then: css only should be the default.

CSS gives us a very good way to stop going on with that inacceptable defaults while we fix the first version of the internet.

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