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Living, in Limbo

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Re: Living, in Limbo

#11

Post by simplify »

> Lesson is: take your medicine. It may hurt, yet the alternative will hurt more.

There is something I've recently realized. Hospitals are optimized to receive patients, control the situation, prevent pain & death, and then hope for the best. In other words, traditional medicine doesn't actually heal you. It only controls the situation, and trusts that your body will heal itself.

This was a strange realization to make. My whole life I've always associated medicine with healing. But now I see that, although very useful, medicine only serves as a band-aid. It doesn't solve the underlying problem.

I think we as a society need to realize this. Not because traditional medicine is bad (it has helped save countless lives, for sure), but because we need to start looking into alternative medicine that could potentially provide actual healing. There's currently a stigma of anything that isn't a traditional drug / pill... we need to progress past this mindset.

Edit: Sorry for being overly broad. I have more in mind physical and mental health conditions. Regardless, instead of downvotes, how about we have an enlightening discussion?

Edit 2: I misspoke "traditional medicine"; but what I meant was "western medicine", as I was kindly corrected by maxerickson. I apologize for the confusion.

Re: Living, in Limbo

#12

Post by maxerickson »

simplify wrote: post #11

> Lesson is: take your medicine. It may hurt, yet the alternative will hurt more. There is something I've recently realized. Hospitals are optimized to receive patients, control the situation, prevent pain & death, and then hope for the best. In other words, traditional medicine doesn't actually heal you . It only controls the situation, and trusts that your body will heal itself. This was a strange realization to ma…

You are talking about modern medicine. It's ~150 years old as a field.

It's cured all sorts of things. Vaccines, antibiotics, joint reconstruction, etc, etc.

Re: Living, in Limbo

#13

Post by fanzhang »

ekianjo wrote: post #9
sdfin wrote: post #3

The proximity of death turns many people philosophical. I like reading what people think when looking at life from that perspective. I also enjoyed reading an article which was posted in HN some years ago, about the more common regrets of people on their deathbeds: https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2012/feb/01/top-fiv...

Regrets on deathbeds are kind of a myth. Most people did actually make the conscious choices throughout their lives not to do the things they regret when things are over. So i would not give it too much credence unless their life is cut very short when they barely had a chance to do anything.

I would also contend that for a large fraction of those people who have deathbed wishes, if a magic force suddenly granted that person 50 more years of healthy life, they'd go back to doing what they had "regretted".

The guy who regrets working too hard at the end of life might be reflecting on some projects he put too much effort into, thinking he should have relaxed instead.

Yet with 50 more years, he might get a jump on a dozen more projects, or reach for that next promotion.

Re: Living, in Limbo

#14

Post by 0942v8653 »

simplify wrote: post #11

> Lesson is: take your medicine. It may hurt, yet the alternative will hurt more. There is something I've recently realized. Hospitals are optimized to receive patients, control the situation, prevent pain & death, and then hope for the best. In other words, traditional medicine doesn't actually heal you . It only controls the situation, and trusts that your body will heal itself. This was a strange realization to ma…

This issue is, from what I've gathered, fairly recent, and amounts to what some would call a crisis in psychiatry; there's a strong incentive for drug makers to prefer a repeating, temporary solution over a permanent one. Even if a permanent drug was researched, tested, and approved, it would be hard to come by because it would basically be a net loss for the company. However, it remains to be seen how viable "actual healing" is for a chronic problem—mental health or otherwise.

In my opinion, taking things from your perspective is going to be very hit-and-miss. Combined with the replication issues that seem to crop up in these fields, a great deal of money and energy might be spent on a non-drug remedy that is simply a more effective placebo. It could take years to figure out whether a treatment provides life-lasting effects.

Re: Living, in Limbo

#15

Post by Retra »

simplify wrote: post #11

> Lesson is: take your medicine. It may hurt, yet the alternative will hurt more. There is something I've recently realized. Hospitals are optimized to receive patients, control the situation, prevent pain & death, and then hope for the best. In other words, traditional medicine doesn't actually heal you . It only controls the situation, and trusts that your body will heal itself. This was a strange realization to ma…

Your use of "we" is overly broad for the points you are trying to make. I see no reason to believe the mindset that you imagine everyone to have is one that they actually have. It looks to be merely a good straw man soap box for you to preach from.

Re: Living, in Limbo

#16

Post by sndean »

simplify wrote: post #11

> Lesson is: take your medicine. It may hurt, yet the alternative will hurt more. There is something I've recently realized. Hospitals are optimized to receive patients, control the situation, prevent pain & death, and then hope for the best. In other words, traditional medicine doesn't actually heal you . It only controls the situation, and trusts that your body will heal itself. This was a strange realization to ma…

> There's currently a stigma of anything that isn't a traditional drug / pill...

Just using penicillin as an example:

Imagine you have an incurable infection and I told you that there's this mysterious blue mold that, when crushed up and consumed, will cure you. That sounds a lot like alternative medicine, but when you extract the active component and put it in a certain delivery system (i.e., a pill/capsule/tablet) it's "traditional," modern medicine.

> ... traditional medicine doesn't actually heal you.

And penicillin has saved millions [1] of lives.

[1] estimates ranging from "several" to "hundreds" of millions.

Re: Living, in Limbo

#17

Post by simplify »

maxerickson wrote: post #12
simplify wrote: post #11

> Lesson is: take your medicine. It may hurt, yet the alternative will hurt more. There is something I've recently realized. Hospitals are optimized to receive patients, control the situation, prevent pain & death, and then hope for the best. In other words, traditional medicine doesn't actually heal you . It only controls the situation, and trusts that your body will heal itself. This was a strange realization to ma…

You are talking about modern medicine. It's ~150 years old as a field. It's cured all sorts of things. Vaccines, antibiotics, joint reconstruction, etc, etc.

Traditional medicine is an official term: http://www.who.int/medicines/areas/traditional/definitions/e...

Vaccines are interesting, since they don't directly solve the problem, but aid your body in helping itself.

I concede antibiotics and joint reconstruction. However, we've only begun to scratch the surface of what's possible. As a society, we shouldn't limit ourselves to only what is taught in a medical degree.

Re: Living, in Limbo

#18

Post by foxylad »

james-watson wrote: post #8

Surprisingly strong opinions on world politics, without much evidence. I have the utmost sympathy for the plight of the chronically ill, but to decree a referendum result as "madness" is slightly egotistical. Perhaps those who are outraged by world events merely don't see the full picture? Perhaps their protective shells work too well, and they are insulated from the reality with which the masses must contend? Worth…

The thing about someone on their deathbed is that they have no skin in the game. It's the polar opposite of egotism.

I'm guessing you don't agree with his thinking. When you are on your deathbed, I'll give your opinion equal credence.

Re: Living, in Limbo

#19

Post by maxerickson »

simplify wrote: post #17
maxerickson wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are talking about modern medicine. It's ~150 years old as a field. It's cured all sorts of things. Vaccines, antibiotics, joint reconstruction, etc, etc.

Traditional medicine is an official term: http://www.who.int/medicines/areas/traditional/definitions/e... Vaccines are interesting, since they don't directly solve the problem, but aid your body in helping itself. I concede antibiotics and joint reconstruction. However, we've only begun to scratch the surface of what's possible. As a society, we shouldn't limit ourselves to only what is taught in a medical degree.

No, your comment is pretty clearly about modern medicine. Traditional medicine is a little more rooted in tradition (from your link):

http://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/10665/66783/1/WHO_EDM_TRM...

Things like herbal therapies and acupuncture and so on.

Re: Living, in Limbo

#20

Post by simplify »

Retra wrote: post #15
simplify wrote: post #11

> Lesson is: take your medicine. It may hurt, yet the alternative will hurt more. There is something I've recently realized. Hospitals are optimized to receive patients, control the situation, prevent pain & death, and then hope for the best. In other words, traditional medicine doesn't actually heal you . It only controls the situation, and trusts that your body will heal itself. This was a strange realization to ma…

Your use of "we" is overly broad for the points you are trying to make. I see no reason to believe the mindset that you imagine everyone to have is one that they actually have. It looks to be merely a good straw man soap box for you to preach from.

There is reason, though. For example, there is stigma against chiropractors [1]. Some nutritional supplements have been found a scam (rightly so), but the baby got thrown out with the bathwater [2].

Have you heard of sound therapy? Laser therapy? NLP? These are therapies you probably would never hear at a traditional doctor's office.

[1] https://www.quora.com/Why-are-chiropractors-not-considered-r... [2] http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/altmed.htm...

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