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Anatomy of a World War I Artillery Barrage

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Re: Anatomy of a World War I Artillery Barrage

#81

Post by Noseshine »

e12e wrote: post #80
Noseshine wrote: post #5

In this context, about PTSD: "What if PTSD Is More Physical Than Psychological?" > A new study supports what a small group of military researchers > has suspected for decades: that modern warfare destroys the brain. Cause: Brain injuries stemming from blast exposure. http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/12/magazine/what-if-ptsd-is-m...

I suppose a better synopsis would have been that there may be a set of injuries that result from physical trauma to the brain, that can be conflated with war-induced PTSD. But as people that suffer trauma without serious head injuries exhibit some of the same traits as those that are associated with PTSD, it's not really about PTSD in general being physical (as in result of external physical trauma, as opposed to phy…

    > that suffer trauma without serious head injuries
You didn't read or you didn't understand the article.

The injuries they are talking about are invisible unless you put the brain under a microsocope.

Re: Anatomy of a World War I Artillery Barrage

#82

Post by 13of40 »

camperman wrote: post #38

I've been shelled with 155mm shells. There is (or used to be) a bunker on Salisbury Plain where trainee artillery officers could experience it for themselves. It has very thick concrete, four foot thick windows and so on. Even with all the protection it's terrifying. They drop the rounds a few yards in front of you. The noise is unbelievable, the shockwaves actually bend the concrete inward a little and the dummy tar…

I remember hand grenade day in Army basic training, and at the time what struck me was that the grenades going off looked and sounded like what artillery does in the movies. Spine-jarring explosions, 25-foot-tall clouds of dirt and smoke, etc. Later on (at air defense school, for some reason) we did a claymore mine at one of our live fire events, and it was far, far louder and vicious than the POP and shower of sparks that Hollywood would have given us. I can't even imagine what it would be like to be near a real artillery round landing.

Re: Anatomy of a World War I Artillery Barrage

#83

Post by abrie »

grellas wrote: post #13

There is no more eerie account of what it was like to be a foot soldier caught up in trench warfare than Arthur Guy Empey's book "Over the Top" (1917). It is available free as a Kindle ebook: https://www.amazon.com/Over-Top-Arthur-Guy-Empey-ebook/dp/B0... (some reviews can be found here: http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1517707.Over_The_Top ) Empey was an American who managed to get in the mix with the British sold…

The posted article lacks substance, but I read "Over the Top" because of your comment. It is excellent. Thank you. I found my copy on archive.org[0].

I read it alongside "The Arms of Krupp"[1], and found the combination highly synergistic. The sensation of perspective is multiplied further if read with "All Quiet on the Western Front".

[0] https://archive.org/details/overtopbyamerica00empe

[1] https://openlibrary.org/books/OL24200511M/The_arms_of_Krupp_...

Re: Anatomy of a World War I Artillery Barrage

#84

Post by rdl »

The amazing thing to me, aside from the inhumanity of the war and weirdly anachronistic things like the French cavalry uniforms and tactics at the beginning of the war, was that shell shock/PTSD/etc. wasn't recognized as a real thing, instead the armies would execute soldiers for cowardice. At least many of those have been posthumously (and far later) pardoned, not that it really makes much difference.

Re: Anatomy of a World War I Artillery Barrage

#85

Post by rdl »

camperman wrote: post #38

I've been shelled with 155mm shells. There is (or used to be) a bunker on Salisbury Plain where trainee artillery officers could experience it for themselves. It has very thick concrete, four foot thick windows and so on. Even with all the protection it's terrifying. They drop the rounds a few yards in front of you. The noise is unbelievable, the shockwaves actually bend the concrete inward a little and the dummy tar…

I suspect quite a few more people in the Western militaries today have seen 155mm go off as IEDs, now. I assume it's roughly comparable to a ground detonation (usually they were buried slightly, either in a culvert or below grade, but only a few feet).

Re: Anatomy of a World War I Artillery Barrage

#86

Post by dredmorbius »

tptacek wrote: post #23
dredmorbius wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The brain is a highly complex system. Complex systems are characterised by having many, often subtle, and frequently profound, failure and damage pathways. There is a substantial psychological literature of the long-lasting effects of purely psychological trauma , for example, strongly implicated in borderline personality disorder. Literally -- the behavior and treatment one experiences as a child can have profound l…

A comment that is merely wrong might merit a downvote or an explanation. A comment that is simultaneously wrong, off-topic, and offensive merits a flag. Best to think of the flag not as a judgement on the commenter, but on the impact of the comment itself. A wrong comment might actually be a net-positive if it sparks a series of great comments explaining the right answer. But here, the impact of the comment is obviou…

... and I may well come to change my mind as to the wisdom of my decision.

Re: Anatomy of a World War I Artillery Barrage

#87

Post by 13of40 »

camperman wrote: post #42
thearn4 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was an artilleryman is the U.S. Army. We get the machine gun fired over us in a trench during basic training (like everyone else), but that sounds like so much more profound of an experience. I kind of wish we did that here. That said, I was enlisted (NCO), not a commissioned officer. For all I know, they may do something like that for (to?) the officers at Fort Sill.

On that topic, artillery shells flying over you sound strange, like tearing a linen sail or sheet down the middle - no joke.

I was in an infantry exercise at JBLM where they were firing artillery from right next to our position, and I remember every tenth round or so would have a defect that made it go zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzoooooommmm when it came out of the barrel.

Re: Anatomy of a World War I Artillery Barrage

#88

Post by e12e »

Noseshine wrote: post #81
e12e wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose a better synopsis would have been that there may be a set of injuries that result from physical trauma to the brain, that can be conflated with war-induced PTSD. But as people that suffer trauma without serious head injuries exhibit some of the same traits as those that are associated with PTSD, it's not really about PTSD in general being physical (as in result of external physical trauma, as opposed to phy…

> that suffer trauma without serious head injuries You didn't read or you didn't understand the article. The injuries they are talking about are invisible unless you put the brain under a microsocope .

I meant trauma in the sense of head injury/head trauma -- a concussion is usually first diagnosed by secondary effects, not by "looking at the brain" as far I am aware.

Perhaps I should've said "head trauma without visible/apparent injuries to the head". Sorry for the confusion. I only meant to contrast the micro-injuries that these new studies reference with the also real physical changes that often accompany "purely" psychological conditions.

Re: Anatomy of a World War I Artillery Barrage

#89

Post by moptar »

angry_octet wrote: post #64
moptar wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps the world would be a less violent place if we laughed at soldiers for their failures instead of glorifying them. The article fittingly ends with "all that suffering .. for what?" It really was a lot of murderous people getting themselves killed and injured while trying to kill other people. Not something to have sympathy for. Sure, they might have been fooled by naive ideas of nationalism, but that's still a…

I salute your trolling and utter ignorance. WWI history is replete with stories of how pointless it was, hence 'war to end all wars' etc. Overwhelmingly it was the generals and admirals who were happy to throw men into the meat grinder. Haig, Churchill, Ludendorff, they are the monsters.

About half of UK WWI soldiers were volunteers. They threw themselves into the meat grinder. Even conscripted people could appeal for being a conscientious objector.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recruitment_to_the_British_Arm...

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