Trust in Government Is Collapsing Around the World • Hacker News Board

Re: Trust in Government Is Collapsing Around the World

#191

Post by cmurf » Mon, Jul 04, 2016, 9:22 PM UTC

ppereira wrote: post #170

Tharkun wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Limiting high rise sounds like a good thing. Especially in places reasonably far from the equator. It's nice being able to get sunlight at the street level! I don't think very tall buildings are the answer. More and better communal services and smaller more efficient properties. I think that would go a fair way.

This is NIMBYism at its finest. Those who immigrated to Toronto first own prime real estate near commercial centres. New working families have to move out and commute long distances so that retired folk living in Toronto houses can enjoy their land appreciation and sunshine.

It happens everywhere it seems, even in small resort towns, their success does not apply to everyone. If you have money, you can buy in. If you don't, you live in the next town, and pay for your own bus to get to work.

Back in the day, America, and even in Britain, housed their servant class.

Today, sure the servant class is "free" to the degree they're not literally called servants, but I think we're doing things worse when it comes to housing. This servant class is priced out of the employer's neighborhood market to be sure, but often all surrounding neighborhoods, and increasingly even the town, that their employer resides in. They're effectively exported at the end of their service day, and imported when needed again the next. I think it's disgusting.

Re: Trust in Government Is Collapsing Around the World

#192

Post by SideburnsOfDoom » Mon, Jul 04, 2016, 9:31 PM UTC

sievebrain wrote: post #186

SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hm, Brexit seems to me a decision taken for emotive reasons promoted by some larger-than-life personalities. Yes, they're all gone, which is very strange indeed - most victories have no shortage of fathers. (1) Instead they're all running for cover. So no, very. 1) http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/j/johnfkenn110295.h...

I can assure you the vast majority of UK voters didn't give a crap about the personalities involved, nor were the decisions taken for "emotive reasons" (sure are lots of people in denial trying to claim that though).

It's a funny sort on non-emotive decision that causes a massive rise in racist violence.

Re: Trust in Government Is Collapsing Around the World

#193

Post by pjc50 » Mon, Jul 04, 2016, 9:37 PM UTC

sievebrain wrote: post #179

pjc50 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

with some luck they will cause some real political reform in those two countries. Currently it looks like the most likely outcome is an independent Scotland trying to remain in the EU (with a vaguely social-democrat politics) and a chaotic / far-right England. Northern Ireland is waiting to see what will happen; the peace process there was dependent on the EU and there are some possible disastrous outcomes that nobod…

And yet the Independent, the Guardian, the FT, the Economist etc have all been posting nothing but pro-EU articles for weeks now. The Indy seems to have gone into complete meltdown. So you think these don't balance out, huh.

It's like global warming: the two sides aren't symmetrical, and trying to balance between inaccurate and accurate articles does not bring the reader closer to the truth.

(The Telegraph have James Delingpole as their anti-wind-farm global warming denialist column)

Re: Trust in Government Is Collapsing Around the World

#194

Post by pjc50 » Mon, Jul 04, 2016, 9:45 PM UTC

tajen wrote: post #184

pjc50 wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes, immigrants who have been accepted are all UK nationals and they belong there now. No, being an intra-EU migrant under EU free movement does not automatically make you a UK national. You retain your original nationality unless and until you go through the naturalisation process, which few have bothered with because it costs >£1500 and until now does not convey much benefit. This is why people are worried about…

> No, being an intra-EU migrant under EU free movement does not automatically make you a UK national Good, because I wasn't talking about those, slight misunderstanding. "Immigrant who have been accepted" = visa holder who is now a citizen = for example a ultra-highly-skilled newly-UK-national born in India. > but that's nothing to do with the EU? Absolutely nothing, and that's the problem: The English haven't been a…

> misunderstanding

That's why I said putting all "immigration" into a single category is that it conflates so many different things. The Brexit vote can only affect EU free movement immigration.

> So next time they had an opportunity to vote

Next time? What time period do you think this covers? People have been complaining about immigration since the Empire Windrush in 1948. The 'rivers of blood' speech was in 1968. This conversation about immigration has been happening my entire lifetime.

There's a handy graph widget here: http://www.neighbourhood.statistics.gov.uk/HTMLDocs/dvc123/i... which any reasonable eyeballing suggests that immigration has been in the hundred-thousands for about two decades across three Labour governments and two Conservative ones.

Re: Trust in Government Is Collapsing Around the World

#195

Post by cmurf » Mon, Jul 04, 2016, 9:46 PM UTC

marknutter wrote: post #187

gerbilly wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Asking that the government liberate that money [...] does not seem like a good policy given how incompetent the government has proven itself to be when spending the money it already collects. So don't ask the government to liberate the existing holdings of the 1%, ask them to change policy to cutoff the supply. The tax code is so overwhelmingly in favour of the investing class that, if it were re-balanced, you would…

Overwhelmingly in favor of the investing class? How on earth are you reaching that conclusion? The bottom 45% pay no federal income tax whatsoever. In fact, the top 1% pay 25% of all taxes in the US. I wouldn't call that "overwhelmingly in favor. You can certainly argue that they should be taxed more but let's not pretend they're not already footing a disproportionate portion of our tax obligations.

The conclusion is reached by distinguishing between earned and unearned income. Unearned income is essentially investment income, and there is no FICA tax on that income, and it's taxed based on your earned income tax bracket, which could end up making it 0% and thus not taxed at all if you have no earned income. https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/investing/2015-capital-gains...

Further, while it is true that "federal income tax" does not include FICA, FICA is a tax on income and the poorest sod pays FICA tax from the very first dollar of income. So it's kinda misleading to say the bottom 45% won't pay any income (related) tax whatsoever.

You can have a case where those 45% are paying 7.65% of their pittance of income on FICA, with no additional income related tax, where someone wealthy enough who has no earned income is paying 0% federal income tax or capital gains tax or FICA on their unearned investment income. And that's just a small example.

Re: Trust in Government Is Collapsing Around the World

#196

Post by vitd » Mon, Jul 04, 2016, 10:45 PM UTC

Tharkun wrote: post #169

ppereira wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lack of construction is certainly a problem in Toronto, which has a default 10 meter height limit for new residential construction. All new buildings taller than a house require municipal buy-in. Between 2001 and 2011, the number dwellings in Toronto increased 11%, while areas 30km from the downtown core grew about 35%. You can clearly see the effects of the 10m restriction on urban sprawl at p. 11 of the city's cens…

Limiting high rise sounds like a good thing. Especially in places reasonably far from the equator. It's nice being able to get sunlight at the street level! I don't think very tall buildings are the answer. More and better communal services and smaller more efficient properties. I think that would go a fair way.

There are ways to make it better. For example, when driving through Manhattan, you feel like you're in a canyon. In downtown Chicago, you don't get that same feeling because they have rules that buildings have to be so many feet from the street, and after a certain height must be set in even more. It's a real noticeable difference from cities that don't have such regulations, and it really makes the city feel much more sunny, friendly, and alive. I often felt like a troll walking through Manhattan.

Re: Trust in Government Is Collapsing Around the World

#197

Post by JBReefer » Mon, Jul 04, 2016, 10:46 PM UTC

rinze wrote: post #44

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We didn't have apathy in the recent UK referendum, voter turnout was very high.

If I understand correctly, there was a significant gap between the turnout rate for the young people and the turnout rate for the elderly. https://next.ft.com/content/2994afe4-43b0-3763-a80c-92351473...

So? Are young people inherently more valuable or more correct?

Re: Trust in Government Is Collapsing Around the World

#198

Post by LoSboccacc » Mon, Jul 04, 2016, 11:00 PM UTC

JBReefer wrote: post #197

rinze wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I understand correctly, there was a significant gap between the turnout rate for the young people and the turnout rate for the elderly. https://next.ft.com/content/2994afe4-43b0-3763-a80c-92351473...

So? Are young people inherently more valuable or more correct?

no, but are underrepresented because the mistrust trend seems to hit them harder and in a bad way.

also, while I'd argue older people have more world experience, they are also disconnected from society advancements (which is a struggle as old as dirt) and I'd say a healthy society needs not just voting to act as an average between the groups but a dialogue where input from both sides are taken for advancement.

to be honest I'm in the apathy group myself, not because I mistrust politician but because I mistrust a system that promotes a dichotomy between winners and losers on interest groups instead of leveraging both sides needs and wants synergically

Re: Trust in Government Is Collapsing Around the World

#199

Post by marknutter » Mon, Jul 04, 2016, 11:02 PM UTC

arca_vorago wrote: post #190

marknutter wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who bailed out the bankers? Oh, that's right – the institution you describe as the "only thing that truly has any reigns around its neck". I'm not surprised your prediction involves a conspiracy theory.

See, you actually bring up a good point, which is that the common discourse tends to divide into anti government/pro business, pro government/anti business, when in reality part of the problem is the lines between business and gov are so blurred how can you tell? I get the feeling you are on the bad gov/pro bus side, but I don't want to put words into your mouth. So yes, the gov did bail out the bankers, but mostly b…

I'd say I'm a business-bad/government-worse person but I'll choose lots of bad businesses who can't tax people over one massive and corrupt government who can tax people.

Re: Trust in Government Is Collapsing Around the World

#200

Post by throwaway1979 » Tue, Jul 05, 2016, 1:14 AM UTC

mtanski wrote: post #86

throwaway1979 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't just sale of public institutions. In many cases, it is attempts to maintain the status quo when circumstances have clearly changed. Public sector pensions are a perfect example of this. I think most software engineers don't realize how good public servants have it. In a time of very little safe asset growth, defined benefit pension plans are simply unsustainable without massive increases in contributions. Ye…

It'll be interasting what's going to happen with state pensions when the burden is just too high. In the next 15 years one of these IL, NJ or HI will be at a breaking point. My bet is on IL since the approx date of falling off the cliff is 2028.

According to the book (the author did do some financial analysis but I forget the details), if these states sell a small fraction of their assets, they will be able to pay off all their debt. I'm definitely not agreeing with the author's point of view, but that is something I had not thought about before. i.e. while your debt may be a lot higher than your income, if you have sizable assets, you an get away with it for a while.