Trust in Government Is Collapsing Around the World • Hacker News Board

Re: Trust in Government Is Collapsing Around the World

#161

Post by juk5 » Mon, Jul 04, 2016, 4:49 PM UTC

conanbatt wrote: post #56

retrogradeorbit wrote: post #6

In my opinion this is the inevitable political crisis that unrestrained neoliberalism has lead us to. [ https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/may/31/witnes... ] I'd say this is the end of the ideology but I'm too much of a realist and I expect the powers that be to now double down on it and then try and profit from it all going up in flames. (But please don't assume I am some kind of socialist/anti-capitalis…

If I were to make a broad connection between the lack of trust in government, I would attribute it to the aging of the democratic institution. In the last 15 years, scandals around voting have been huge in many elections, and the advance of technology is making how the politicians run look antiquated and unrepresentative. I think this is more of a general response against governments who don't have the capacity to fu…

I'd prefer power in the hands of the few. The selection of the few needs fine tuning and fixing though.

The cumulative intelligence and decision making capability of the herd is great at wasting everyone's time and the worlds resources. Thanks to visionary lizard person Mark Zuckerberg, we are all connected now whether we like it or not. And the stampeding brainless herd is going to be dragging each one of us in directions we have no control over.

As long as China doesn't implode, they have an opportunity here to show the world a way out. If they do implode we have to just wait around for a better, more effective centralized system to evolve.

Re: Trust in Government Is Collapsing Around the World

#162

Post by anonbanker » Mon, Jul 04, 2016, 5:03 PM UTC

Throwaway23412 wrote: post #62

retrogradeorbit wrote: post #6

In my opinion this is the inevitable political crisis that unrestrained neoliberalism has lead us to. [ https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/may/31/witnes... ] I'd say this is the end of the ideology but I'm too much of a realist and I expect the powers that be to now double down on it and then try and profit from it all going up in flames. (But please don't assume I am some kind of socialist/anti-capitalis…

This coincides with a podcast interview I listened to with a renowned CPA. He said that the existing tax code in the U.S. is set almost entirely to incentivize growth, entrepreneurship, and investment. So, the tax code is full of all kinds of breaks for employers, job creators, investors, owners of assets, etc. The tax rate on most long-term capital gains is significantly less than income tax. Salaried individuals be…

During the Great Depression, every newspaper called it a "Recession". it wasn't called a Depression until it was over.

Seems history is repeating itself, judging from the wording of your post.

Re: Trust in Government Is Collapsing Around the World

#163

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Jul 04, 2016, 5:14 PM UTC

jacobr wrote: post #109

jacquesm wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> lefties Ah, one of those comments. Most of the EU countries where immigration is currently an issue have had 'right wing' parties leading them for a very long time. Immigration is just the easiest populist button to press to get a large number of people to vote against their own interests. One of the problems underlying all this is not immigration per-se, but the rapid and unbounded expansion of the EU to include c…

> Try to imagine a USA where someone from Texas would not be able to move to LA or NYC or the other way around. Border controls against movement on every state-border. If you find that hard to imagine try to come up with a really good argument why it should be any different within the EU. What makes you compare the EU to the US, and not say, the Americas?

[deleted]

Re: Trust in Government Is Collapsing Around the World

#164

Post by kuschku » Mon, Jul 04, 2016, 5:22 PM UTC

venomsnake wrote: post #132

kuschku wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not even true. Not a single German party has been pro out-EU immigration. Not a single one. In fact, the current government even made it harder for asylum seekers to stay, or bring their family, and expects to deport the majority of them in less than 3 years. Please read the official parliamentary protocols, and not the very wrong spin the media put on it.

The thing is only AfD is anti. The other tip toe around the topic from the fear of being labeled racist/phobic. And if no one is pro out of EU migration - why did you let 1000000+ in last two years?

> why did you let 1'000'000+ in last two years?

Simple, because over two thirds of those were already sitting in refugee camps in Greece by mid-2015.

Greece asked Germany to pay for the camps.

Merkel decided that paying for camps in Germany would be cheaper than for paying for camps in Greece, and that here maybe a third could actually get integrated, further lowering costs. And the effort to deport them might get easier.

So she said her famous sentence "we won't send anyone who already is in the EU and tries to go to Germany to get asylum back to the EU country they were in before".

Re: Trust in Government Is Collapsing Around the World

#165

Post by kuschku » Mon, Jul 04, 2016, 5:23 PM UTC

RGamma wrote: post #148

kuschku wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not even true. Not a single German party has been pro out-EU immigration. Not a single one. In fact, the current government even made it harder for asylum seekers to stay, or bring their family, and expects to deport the majority of them in less than 3 years. Please read the official parliamentary protocols, and not the very wrong spin the media put on it.

Last time we took in a large portion of out-EU immigrants we didn't send ~2 million of them back (even though there were plans to do so), many of which I wouldn't remotely consider "German" even in the third generation (yes, I'm talking Turkish guest workers here). I don't see why this would be different this time around, especially considering many have nothing to go back to. From this we also have gotten a clear in…

> Last time we took in a large portion of out-EU immigrants we didn't send ~2 million of them back

That's wrong.

The last time we took in a large portion of out-EU immigrants was the balkan wars, and we sent all of them back in the late 90s/early 2000s.

Re: Trust in Government Is Collapsing Around the World

#166

Post by wvenable » Mon, Jul 04, 2016, 5:30 PM UTC

laichzeit0 wrote: post #159

pjc50 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"multiculturalism, unrestrained immigration, Islam" What do those three things actually mean though? And what would it mean to end them? Immigration is only unrestrained within the EU; EU free movement doesn't apply to either refugees from Syria or non-EU immigrants. What does it mean to end multiculturalism? Formal ban on the teaching of minority languages, as in the bad old days when the UK tried to stamp out Gaeli…

> Islam Muslims killing people because it is Haram to draw cartoon pictures of their imaginary sky god. Muslims sexually harassing woman in Cologne on New Years. Muslims "call to prayer" blaring over load speakers in non-Islamic countries but in their own Muslim created "suburbs". Muslims wanting public swimming pools gender-segregated. If the only way to break the ebb of this tide is through conservative/right-leani…

Aren't all those things already illegal? It is really hard to find people on either side of the political spectrum that wouldn't agree that those things should remain illegal and be enforced.

So most people don't have a problem with that, but they do have a problem with labeling an entire culture, race, or religion is immortal/illegal. That's literally the definition of racism and we should be better than that. Yet it seems like some people are in a real hurry to turn back the clock on that.

Re: Trust in Government Is Collapsing Around the World

#167

Post by internaut » Mon, Jul 04, 2016, 5:30 PM UTC

xyzzyz wrote: post #158

internaut wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Try to imagine a USA where someone from Texas would not be able to move to LA or NYC or the other way around. Border controls against movement on every state-border. If you find that hard to imagine try to come up with a really good argument why it should be any different within the EU. > The EU made a strategic mistake here, which is that they have been partially (together with the US) responsible for the destabil…

I'm quite certain you'll find a lot of Europeans sharing those sentiments, but if you think you speak for overwhelming majority of of them, you are mistaken.

I used to be an open border supporter but then I changed my mind. The same thing is going to happen to a lot more people in the future. I'm liberal in comparison to most people I know. I feel like neither fish nor fowl because I can see the liberal and conservative positions, a bit like flipping back and forth between seeing a blue dress and a gold dress.

I respect David Cameron for allowing the referendum to go ahead and I respect the Austrians for allowing a recount of their votes after potential fraud was spotted.

Despite that I don't think good stewardship can prevent violence breaking out. Between social media and Islamic terror attacks there will be a reaction, probably starting in France.

Re: Trust in Government Is Collapsing Around the World

#168

Post by asgardiator » Mon, Jul 04, 2016, 5:33 PM UTC

distances wrote: post #111

douche wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe Europe should close the floodgates themselves, rather than bitch about we who have been struck by the lightning bolt of sense.

"Floodgates" isn't really the appropriate terminology when you're talking about refugees escaping a war zone for their lives.

It wouldn't be appropriate if every immigrant were a refugee. But, categorically, this is false:

“The number one reason why people leave Syria is not the bombs or the food or the cold, it’s because they want to find educational opportunities for their children,” Mr. Møller explains. “Every refugee is a migrant. Not every migrant is a refugee.” [ http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/05/15/un-director-admit... ]

"Six out of 10 migrants to Europe come for 'economic reasons' and are not refugees" - EU Vice President Frans Timmermans [ http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/six-out-of-10... ]

"The diversity of asylum applications shows the migrant crisis is driven by more than just Syria’s collapse.... Only 21 per cent were from Syria." [ http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/telegraph-view/11877088/N... ]

The vast majority of immigrants are simply looking to take advantage of European Union countries' superior infrastructure and aid/benefit programs.

Re: Trust in Government Is Collapsing Around the World

#169

Post by Tharkun » Mon, Jul 04, 2016, 5:39 PM UTC

ppereira wrote: post #134

turnip1979 wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am skeptical about the roofs over people's head argument. This is being used by buyers to rationalize mind boggling home values in Toronto and Vancouver. If the jobs keep being crappy, young people will just move away to better economic environments. Canada is constantly losing a lot of its top talent to the US because of this. I think the true cause of the unaffordable housing is the insanely low interest rates. T…

Lack of construction is certainly a problem in Toronto, which has a default 10 meter height limit for new residential construction. All new buildings taller than a house require municipal buy-in. Between 2001 and 2011, the number dwellings in Toronto increased 11%, while areas 30km from the downtown core grew about 35%. You can clearly see the effects of the 10m restriction on urban sprawl at p. 11 of the city's cens…

Limiting high rise sounds like a good thing. Especially in places reasonably far from the equator. It's nice being able to get sunlight at the street level!

I don't think very tall buildings are the answer. More and better communal services and smaller more efficient properties. I think that would go a fair way.

Re: Trust in Government Is Collapsing Around the World

#170

Post by ppereira » Mon, Jul 04, 2016, 5:47 PM UTC

Tharkun wrote: post #169

ppereira wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lack of construction is certainly a problem in Toronto, which has a default 10 meter height limit for new residential construction. All new buildings taller than a house require municipal buy-in. Between 2001 and 2011, the number dwellings in Toronto increased 11%, while areas 30km from the downtown core grew about 35%. You can clearly see the effects of the 10m restriction on urban sprawl at p. 11 of the city's cens…

Limiting high rise sounds like a good thing. Especially in places reasonably far from the equator. It's nice being able to get sunlight at the street level! I don't think very tall buildings are the answer. More and better communal services and smaller more efficient properties. I think that would go a fair way.

This is NIMBYism at its finest. Those who immigrated to Toronto first own prime real estate near commercial centres. New working families have to move out and commute long distances so that retired folk living in Toronto houses can enjoy their land appreciation and sunshine.