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No grades, no timetable: Berlin school turns teaching upside down

theguardian.com

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Re: No grades, no timetable: Berlin school turns teaching upside down

#21

Post by tamana »

sharmi wrote: post #8
HillaryBriss wrote: post #2

> The pupils decide which subjects they want to study for each lesson and when they want to take an exam. So the student learns what they want to learn when they want to learn it. The student focuses on a subject when the brain is ready and interested. Sounds efficient. OTOH, one of the really valuable things about a curriculum is that it serves as a guide to a complex and bewildering subject. A curriculum, at its be…

as Platz already pointed out > Set subjects are limited to maths, German, English and social studies, supplemented by more abstract courses such as “responsibility” and “challenge”. Also, there is some accountability in the system. That means there should be some scale to determine if the student has met the required work for the week. > Rasfeld’s institution tries to embed student self-determination within a relativ…

This seems quite the opposite of the headline?

Re: No grades, no timetable: Berlin school turns teaching upside down

#22

Post by tamana »

FeepingCreature wrote: post #6
HillaryBriss wrote: post #2

> The pupils decide which subjects they want to study for each lesson and when they want to take an exam. So the student learns what they want to learn when they want to learn it. The student focuses on a subject when the brain is ready and interested. Sounds efficient. OTOH, one of the really valuable things about a curriculum is that it serves as a guide to a complex and bewildering subject. A curriculum, at its be…

What I'd like to see is a completely opt-in curriculum with introductory classes and transparent requirements. Simultaneous dense "civil education" class focusing on the specific applications of fields to everyday life. Teachers would only have interested students by definition, so they could offer more in-depth classes. I wish somebody would try it. Nobody needs to know sines and cosines, and somebody who doesn't ca…

The problem with completely opt-in is that kids dont know what they'll like until they try it, and if they can opt out of anything difficult, many will learn almost nothing.

Re: No grades, no timetable: Berlin school turns teaching upside down

#23

Post by k-mcgrady »

bbayles wrote: post #13

My partner became involved in Montessori a few years ago, and I've been really impressed with how it works. If you don't know much about Montessori, here is my "in a nutshell" version: It's a method of schooling usually associated with preschool and elementary education. There are mixed age groups (e.g. 3 to 6) in classrooms. There is at least one adult who gives one-on-one lessons on how to work with "materials." Th…

I remember reading that when you compare the development of a child that went to a regular school vs. Montessori the results are the same.

Re: No grades, no timetable: Berlin school turns teaching upside down

#25

Post by chrisper »

bbayles wrote: post #13

My partner became involved in Montessori a few years ago, and I've been really impressed with how it works. If you don't know much about Montessori, here is my "in a nutshell" version: It's a method of schooling usually associated with preschool and elementary education. There are mixed age groups (e.g. 3 to 6) in classrooms. There is at least one adult who gives one-on-one lessons on how to work with "materials." Th…

I went to a Montessori Kindergarten as a child. I think it was good, but I do not remember much anymore. I remember all the toys and other things that taught me reading, counting, fine motor skills etc.

Re: No grades, no timetable: Berlin school turns teaching upside down

#26

Post by savanaly »

k-mcgrady wrote: post #23
bbayles wrote: post #13

My partner became involved in Montessori a few years ago, and I've been really impressed with how it works. If you don't know much about Montessori, here is my "in a nutshell" version: It's a method of schooling usually associated with preschool and elementary education. There are mixed age groups (e.g. 3 to 6) in classrooms. There is at least one adult who gives one-on-one lessons on how to work with "materials." Th…

I remember reading that when you compare the development of a child that went to a regular school vs. Montessori the results are the same.

That's quite surprising, given how different the methods are. What about a control group that received no schooling?

Re: No grades, no timetable: Berlin school turns teaching upside down

#27

Post by gurkendoktor »

Every time I come home from a mind-numbing eight-hour Scrum meeting, I feel frustrated for having accomplished absolutely nothing. Then I realise that this is what school was like, every single day.

I'm sure some people prefer to be force-fed instead of learning on their own, but self-organised schools as in the OP should at least be an option for people who know what they want.

Re: No grades, no timetable: Berlin school turns teaching upside down

#28

Post by JonoBB »

mvdwoord wrote: post #15

I went to a Montessori school for a while. Much like what is described here. For me it was fantastic and I sometimes lightly regret not continuing in high school due to (minor) practical obstacles. That said, I believe these types of systems are definitely not for everyone. Lots of kids are probably better off with a bit of structure and imposed discipline.

Yes, there are definitely some children that this method of teaching is not suited to. Some children lack the drive to find things of interest, and according to the Montessori method, they should not be "pushed" (I use this term very broadly). At the point when they leave Montessori school, these children can be very ill-equipped in relation to their peers and "behind the curve". With some more discipline and structure, this could be avoided.

But, if you fit the right profile, its leaps and bounds ahead of mainstream education during the early years.

My wife is a Montessori teacher.

Re: No grades, no timetable: Berlin school turns teaching upside down

#29

Post by fao_ »

ThomPete wrote: post #20

It really comes down to the children. If they have a lot of selfdisciplin it's great if not they are better off at more strict schools. At the end of the day though, parents and their indirect involvement is the key to a proper education no matter what educational philosophy one follows.

Everyone has self-discipline in some form or another. After observing the difference between children who have been unschooled and children who have been schooled, I would say that children are naturally disciplined (to follow their interests), and then become disinterested when the power to learn is taken out of their hands.

Re: No grades, no timetable: Berlin school turns teaching upside down

#30

Post by nickpsecurity »

bbayles wrote: post #18
tamana wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Montessori is really serious about this; materials are not allowed to be broken or chipped or worn This is a traditional pseudoscientific gimmick to drive sales revenue. In the real world, children are enticed by non-new and broken things just fine... until their parents, competitive peers, TV, or lovers insist they be more materialistic and wealthy signalling.

Citation needed? I'm just describing the Montessori method, which was developed in the early 1900s. But maybe they were driving "sales revenue" then also?

"In the real world, children are enticed by non-new and broken things just fine... until their parents, competitive peers, TV, or lovers insist they be more materialistic and wealthy signalling."

Tamana is describing a behavior known to anyone who have ever watched children play or explore the world. They start out interested in all kinds of stuff regardless if it's shiny or in perfect condition. Later, after much cultural conditioning, they might become adults who aren't interested in such things. The change is conditioned into them overtime. So, focusing on such attributes when training children is unnecessary given it's crap adults make up. If anything, children having some of their best experiences with heirlooms of varying quality might make them prefer such things in the future due to the mental association. So, Montessori method promoters themselves need to show some citations for making that a requirement.

Meanwhile, that should probably be stripped out of the method given there's no hard science backing it as necessary for children's learning. As I illustrated, it's even potentially harmful in predisposing them toward specific aesthetics and disposable goods.

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