Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Trust in Government Is Collapsing Around the World

theatlantic.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 227 posts

Re: Trust in Government Is Collapsing Around the World

#91

Post by DominikR »

jacquesm wrote: post #21
mrmffh wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Race to the bottom (i.e. competition) is a good thing, it reduces waste and inefficiency.

In lala-economic-theory-land yes. But this is not companies competing for the favors of customers. This is nation states competing for the favors of companies and that is a totally different matter. In the real world you need taxes to operate a country and with big business being able to relocate their capital and their profits at a moments notice corporations have a substantial advantage over nation states (which ar…

> In lala-economic-theory-land yes. But this is not companies competing for the favors of customers. This is nation states competing for the favors of companies and that is a totally different matter.

Why is it bad when businesses find that conditions for them constantly get better everywhere? Is there something inherently evil or bad about businesses? This is usually a position hardcore Socalists would take.

> In the real world you need taxes to operate a country and with big business being able to relocate their capital and their profits at a moments notice corporations have a substantial advantage over nation states (which are by definition somewhat immobile).

No corporation can move its operations and profits within a moments notice. This takes usually years and the absolute majority of businesses do not even have the option to ever do this.

The problem of most Western societies is that the top 10% basically pay for 75%+ of everything, the middle class pays an acceptable amount and then theres 30% of free loaders with 29,9% being the ones at the bottom and 0,1% on the top.

Re: Trust in Government Is Collapsing Around the World

#93

Post by gerbilly »

throwaway1979 wrote: post #51
retrogradeorbit wrote: post #6

In my opinion this is the inevitable political crisis that unrestrained neoliberalism has lead us to. [ https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/may/31/witnes... ] I'd say this is the end of the ideology but I'm too much of a realist and I expect the powers that be to now double down on it and then try and profit from it all going up in flames. (But please don't assume I am some kind of socialist/anti-capitalis…

It isn't just sale of public institutions. In many cases, it is attempts to maintain the status quo when circumstances have clearly changed. Public sector pensions are a perfect example of this. I think most software engineers don't realize how good public servants have it. In a time of very little safe asset growth, defined benefit pension plans are simply unsustainable without massive increases in contributions. Ye…

>I think most software engineers don't realize how good public servants have it.

Maybe we should work towards all having it as good as the public servants do.

I'm not trying to foment, but I see this meme all the time: if some other sector of society has it better, then they must be brought down to our level because 'austerity' or something.

Meanwhile I don't see CEO pay being lowered due to austerity or banks making any less profit...

Re: Trust in Government Is Collapsing Around the World

#94

Post by internaut »

retrogradeorbit wrote: post #6

In my opinion this is the inevitable political crisis that unrestrained neoliberalism has lead us to. [ https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/may/31/witnes... ] I'd say this is the end of the ideology but I'm too much of a realist and I expect the powers that be to now double down on it and then try and profit from it all going up in flames. (But please don't assume I am some kind of socialist/anti-capitalis…

There is a problem with this word: Neoliberalism.

First; It is mostly found in the pages of the Guardian and similar left wing publications. Right wing people almost never use it. This makes communication more difficult rather than easier.

Second; The definitions of this word vary greatly. In just the same way 'Communism' is used by the right wing as a word to describe everything from the Soviet to any manifestation of central government, the word 'Neoliberalism' has a range of meanings that encompass all possible forms of capitalism depending on who you talk to. Again, this makes communication harder.

Maybe you should stop using this word. I think it just makes an already difficult topic impossible to discuss.

Re: Trust in Government Is Collapsing Around the World

#95

Post by DominikR »

Scarblac wrote: post #47
mrmffh wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Race to the bottom (i.e. competition) is a good thing, it reduces waste and inefficiency.

Countries aren't machines built to serve companies. Whole countries shouldn't be made to become "more efficient" (or poorer) for the sake of companies.

Countries are there to work in the interest of it's population and business owners are a part of any free and democratic society.

If you don't have a mechanism of business owners and private enterprise that are determined by the vote of the population (via spending money privately on products) then you'll need a state controlled market and I doubt you would like the results. (Venezuela, North Korea, Soviet Union)

Just imagine some government committee is deciding on what the national variant of the new iPhone should look like.

Re: Trust in Government Is Collapsing Around the World

#96

Post by wallace_f »

jacquesm wrote: post #37
tajen wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your rant isn't off-topic: Oftentimes the distrust for govt is reworded by socialist persons as "Remove those highly paid CEOs". But sometimes the distrust isn't against corporates. I the English case, a good part of the distrust is that elites are bringing foreigners that compete with the masses without a public debate on immigration quantity. Meanwhile liberals censor the debate by tagging those who speak up as fas…

> lefties Ah, one of those comments. Most of the EU countries where immigration is currently an issue have had 'right wing' parties leading them for a very long time. Immigration is just the easiest populist button to press to get a large number of people to vote against their own interests. One of the problems underlying all this is not immigration per-se, but the rapid and unbounded expansion of the EU to include c…

>Ah, one of those comments.

Please don't be condescending and derisive in your argument if you politically disagree with them. I'm sick of seeing that, and it's almost always not productive in an ethical way.

Everyone has the right to be heard and share their opinion. If you are right, then you can win your argument on its merits, not on how you frame your opponent.

Re: Trust in Government Is Collapsing Around the World

#97

Post by mtreis86 »

marklgr wrote: post #61
mtreis86 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. I find groups of people scary. Not in the anxiety manner. I mean that I don't know of a single instance of a person doing massive damage to anyone or any thing, when compared to damage by groups or by people with group backing. All the worst atrocities of the past few centuries were carried out by groups of people. The US constitution is supposed to protect individuals from groups, but that seems to have bee…

But humans mostly want to be part of some group, and that's the problem with the current trend of ultra-individualism: people will be much easier to influence by dangerous groups that fill their need for belonging. If there were a stronger sense of community in the first place, instead of the strong emphasis on the autonomous, self-sufficient and competing individual, one could wonder if radical religious or ultranat…

I agree with the hierarchy generally followed by emergency management systems - protect yourself first and your family, then your neighborhood, then if they are all safe help the wider community.

Re: Trust in Government Is Collapsing Around the World

#98

Post by tomp »

DanBC wrote: post #77
brightball wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Vote against their own interests" is one of those terms that I can't stand hearing, because it assumes whoever says it knows what's best for everyone else.

But look at eg Cornwall, who voted to leave and then realised it would mean losing a bunch of EU funding. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/brexit-cornwa... https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jun/26/cornwall-fea...

Or maybe, they want out of the EU, but retain the level of funding they get (which should result in lower costs for the UK government, which was a net payer to the EU)?!

Re: Trust in Government Is Collapsing Around the World

#99

Post by Shivetya »

retrogradeorbit wrote: post #6

In my opinion this is the inevitable political crisis that unrestrained neoliberalism has lead us to. [ https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/may/31/witnes... ] I'd say this is the end of the ideology but I'm too much of a realist and I expect the powers that be to now double down on it and then try and profit from it all going up in flames. (But please don't assume I am some kind of socialist/anti-capitalis…

It we still had true capitalism somewhere I would be surprised. With the dearth of regulation and coercive behavior of politicians many governments border on fascism. The factor many forget is that politicians and those invested in keeping them in office are adept at making you blame the opposite of what is truly at fault.

No, what has really sunk public opinion of government is that the internet has let anyone expose all the skeletons in the closet. Just how invasive and controlling governments have become and worse how far they want to go.

Don't blame a political style, congratulate freedom of information and that is a very good thing

Re: Trust in Government Is Collapsing Around the World

#100

Post by tomp »

amag wrote: post #54
Noseshine wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But in the UK (see: brexit) and in the USA (see: Trump) > there definitely is a populist shift in progress. In Germany too, at least partially: The right-wing and very new "AfD", a relative newcomer, now has almost 1/10th of the votes (depending when you take the poll, results fluctuate).

In Sweden as well. It seems nationalism is on the rise pretty much everywhere, just as it was a hundred yrs ago which lead to WWI (and later WWII).

But in contrast to 100 years ago, nationalism now seems to be a reaction to an external threat (non-EU immigrants), as opposed to intra-European tensions.
Post reply on HN