Fatigue Is a Brain-Derived Emotion that Regulates to Ensure Protection (2012) • Hacker News Board

Re: Fatigue Is a Brain-Derived Emotion that Regulates to Ensure Protection (2012)

#51

Post by ObeyTheGuts » Mon, Jul 04, 2016, 11:44 AM UTC

wallflower wrote: post #44

saiya-jin wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there are sports which will cripple your health in long run, almost guaranteed. many contact sports, it football comes to mind. some of my high school classmates are semi-cripples because of it (they can walk around, and that's about it). depression can be seen in their eyes - once you know what having a healthy and strong body means, and then losing it forever. I've done my share of team/contact sports in my youth.…

> depression can be seen in their eyes - once you know what having a healthy and strong body means, and then losing it forever. I've talked to a friend of a friend who basically doesn't fear what normal people fear (e.g. talking to beautiful women, surfing, rock climbing, talking to strangers - he is really successful at sales). I asked him what his biggest fear was. He said it was to his lose health/lose control of…

I never get whats the difference talking to beautiful women compared to anyone else? Im reserved and dont talk people much but there is no difference at all who those people are! Overall talking women is even bit easier as they are less dangerous on average.

Re: Fatigue Is a Brain-Derived Emotion that Regulates to Ensure Protection (2012)

#52

Post by ObeyTheGuts » Mon, Jul 04, 2016, 11:47 AM UTC

mamon wrote: post #48

halayli wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about mental fatigue? The more you workout your brain the more it needs to rest. How would you like your brain to tell you that it needs to rest other than feeling fatigue? I find myself consistently productive over long spans without a burnout effect when I am sleeping at consistent hours, and working for consistent hours a day. When I overwork my productivity becomes inconsistent so I stopped doing that. I lea…

I heard different story: there is no such thing as "mental fatigue". The reason why we get tired when doing office work is: - our muscles need to support our body while sitting. - most mental work includes some dose of stress, which is a real reason of fatigue. Buy yourself best chair you can find plus do stress-free, enjoyable work and you can go 16 hours straight, without fatigue. At least that's how I felt about a…

Dude i get fatigued by games, u have a point, but there is just less fatigue not 0 fatigue.

Re: Fatigue Is a Brain-Derived Emotion that Regulates to Ensure Protection (2012)

#53

Post by rangibaby » Mon, Jul 04, 2016, 11:49 AM UTC

ArkyBeagle wrote: post #30

lj3 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> soccer players who came in with bruises that you'd associate with a severe beating I was a lacrosse goalie in high school and didn't have the sense to wear shin pads. If you run your fingers along my shin, you'll feel divots where the bone never regenerated. I too used to walk around with bruises on my legs that you'd associate with a severe beating. > Is this because of Mountain Dew commercials and 1980s GI Joe bo…

I was 120 lbs soaking wet when I was 17. The school gently guided me away from sports. Good thing, too. Best coach I ever had. I graduated high school close to 1980. Sure, there were guys finishing the big game on a broken bone but it seems like there's a lot more emphasis on this now, and it seems more dangerous and higher risk. I have nephews and kids of friends who are electing out of organized sports. FWIW, I fee…

As the level of players gets better and better the game gets more dangerous. Rugby is a good example of this, over the past couple of years there have been multiple deaths because IMO the players are too big and too skilled. I watched a pro game from the 70s on YouTube between the two best rugby teams (NZ and Australia) and the level of play was shockingly bad, to the point that even an amateur club team now would have a good chance of beating them.

Re: Fatigue Is a Brain-Derived Emotion that Regulates to Ensure Protection (2012)

#54

Post by uola » Mon, Jul 04, 2016, 12:15 PM UTC

mathattack wrote: post #28

mrexroad wrote: post #25

My first thought was, "oh, reminds me of the SEAL's 40% rule... so if they're trained to ignore that limit, why don't they get hurt?" Then, in first google result [1], I read this: “I first met “SEAL” at a 100-mile run in San Diego and I was running this race as part of a six-person relay team with friends and he was running the entire race by himself,” Itzler said. “Who is this guy? I’ve never seen anything like it.…

Interesting. I've trained with many Seals - they have ungodly cardio. I've never seen any that big, as the extra muscle kills their cardio.

Something seems fishy about that story. Not only are special forces people usually smaller, but getting hurt is a big no no. It will stop your training and severely jeopardize any mission you're on. Most special forces teaches the opposite of "if it's not hard we don't do it" i.e. to use your tactical advantage. That said, getting in to US special forces probably isn't that selective these days with having had to fill a lot of "seats" for various wars.

Re: Fatigue Is a Brain-Derived Emotion that Regulates to Ensure Protection (2012)

#55

Post by JakeColtman » Mon, Jul 04, 2016, 12:27 PM UTC

mamon wrote: post #48

halayli wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about mental fatigue? The more you workout your brain the more it needs to rest. How would you like your brain to tell you that it needs to rest other than feeling fatigue? I find myself consistently productive over long spans without a burnout effect when I am sleeping at consistent hours, and working for consistent hours a day. When I overwork my productivity becomes inconsistent so I stopped doing that. I lea…

I heard different story: there is no such thing as "mental fatigue". The reason why we get tired when doing office work is: - our muscles need to support our body while sitting. - most mental work includes some dose of stress, which is a real reason of fatigue. Buy yourself best chair you can find plus do stress-free, enjoyable work and you can go 16 hours straight, without fatigue. At least that's how I felt about a…

Anecdotally, more difficult mental work causes me to mentally fatigue faster which feels like good evidence against the claim

Re: Fatigue Is a Brain-Derived Emotion that Regulates to Ensure Protection (2012)

#56

Post by digi_owl » Mon, Jul 04, 2016, 12:28 PM UTC

uola wrote: post #54

mathattack wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. I've trained with many Seals - they have ungodly cardio. I've never seen any that big, as the extra muscle kills their cardio.

Something seems fishy about that story. Not only are special forces people usually smaller, but getting hurt is a big no no. It will stop your training and severely jeopardize any mission you're on. Most special forces teaches the opposite of "if it's not hard we don't do it" i.e. to use your tactical advantage. That said, getting in to US special forces probably isn't that selective these days with having had to fil…

Especially as the Vietnam War made drafts unpalatable.

Re: Fatigue Is a Brain-Derived Emotion that Regulates to Ensure Protection (2012)

#57

Post by digi_owl » Mon, Jul 04, 2016, 12:34 PM UTC

Noseshine wrote: post #49

gwern wrote: post #10

'Protection' might be the goal of physical fatigue, but it doesn't work for intellectual effort - what are you being 'protected from breaking' by not being able to write another line of code? Carpal tunnel? In that case, it looks more like it's about conserving energy or rotating to another task after having spent so much time on one task: "A Meta-Analysis of Blood Glucose Effects on Human Decision Making" http://www…

Having taken neuroscience courses for interest in the subject, the holes in our knowledge far exceed the knowledge - even if the introductory book is over a thousand pages (but that's how it is in most fields these days, and yet you only learn basics). For example, only very recently we found that the brain literally cleans itself (by flushing) during sleep ( http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3880190/ ). Yo…

Brings to mind the claim that we have X hours of focused mental effort we can spend each day. Go beyond that and we start dropping back to fight or flight instincts etc.

Re: Fatigue Is a Brain-Derived Emotion that Regulates to Ensure Protection (2012)

#58

Post by TeMPOraL » Mon, Jul 04, 2016, 1:35 PM UTC

known wrote: post #39

Is it same for procrastination?

Maybe. In my case it's often protection against bullshit things I have to do but I'd rather don't. Sadly, the "system 1" in my brain doesn't understand that it's not just "have to do", it's "have to do, or else...".

Re: Fatigue Is a Brain-Derived Emotion that Regulates to Ensure Protection (2012)

#59

Post by orbitur » Mon, Jul 04, 2016, 2:18 PM UTC

ObeyTheGuts wrote: post #51

wallflower wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> depression can be seen in their eyes - once you know what having a healthy and strong body means, and then losing it forever. I've talked to a friend of a friend who basically doesn't fear what normal people fear (e.g. talking to beautiful women, surfing, rock climbing, talking to strangers - he is really successful at sales). I asked him what his biggest fear was. He said it was to his lose health/lose control of…

I never get whats the difference talking to beautiful women compared to anyone else? Im reserved and dont talk people much but there is no difference at all who those people are! Overall talking women is even bit easier as they are less dangerous on average.

For me, it's probably a holdover from my teenage years as a socially awkward and horny boy. I'm in my 30s now, but there's weird mental habits and impulses that are still sticking around.

I'm happily married, I don't cheat, I don't want to cheat, I'm really not interested in the "hot woman," but if I end up talking to her under any circumstances, there's a loud chorus of voices in my head screaming "dontfuckitupdontfuckitupdontfuckitup." I push through and get over my initial nerves, because I'm a grown up, but it's awful and annoying and I wish it would go away.

Re: Fatigue Is a Brain-Derived Emotion that Regulates to Ensure Protection (2012)

#60

Post by gryphonshafer » Mon, Jul 04, 2016, 2:19 PM UTC

sangnoir wrote: post #47

gryphonshafer wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe something that copies military basic training. It has been decades, but I can still hear my drill instructor yelling, "You aren't tired until I tell you you're tired!" He was right.

> I can still hear my drill instructor yelling, "You aren't tired until I tell you you're tired!" He was right. I wonder why Rhabdo[1] isn't more prevalent in basic than it is. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhabdomyolysis

>90% of fatigue in basic (based on a scientific study I just made up in my head) is mentally induced because recruits have a belief of their limits that's short of reality. Part of the drill instructor's responsibility is to demonstrate these limits are just mental by pushing recruits beyond them. Of course, that still leaves the <10% of times when the limits are real and someone gets hurt, but that's just collateral damage, I guess.