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Trust in Government Is Collapsing Around the World

theatlantic.com

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Re: Trust in Government Is Collapsing Around the World

#51

Post by throwaway1979 »

retrogradeorbit wrote: post #6

In my opinion this is the inevitable political crisis that unrestrained neoliberalism has lead us to. [ https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/may/31/witnes... ] I'd say this is the end of the ideology but I'm too much of a realist and I expect the powers that be to now double down on it and then try and profit from it all going up in flames. (But please don't assume I am some kind of socialist/anti-capitalis…

It isn't just sale of public institutions. In many cases, it is attempts to maintain the status quo when circumstances have clearly changed. Public sector pensions are a perfect example of this. I think most software engineers don't realize how good public servants have it. In a time of very little safe asset growth, defined benefit pension plans are simply unsustainable without massive increases in contributions. Yet everywhere it seems that contributions are not going up and the people are employing various tricks to keep things going. In a fair market, the new reality would be accepted and pension plans would change. But here we are.

Btw ... in the book Fate of the State, the author suggests states to privatize their assets to meet their funding shortfalls. So the neoliberals will truly profit while things get worse. Sad.

Re: Trust in Government Is Collapsing Around the World

#52

Post by venomsnake »

Noseshine wrote: post #35
jacquesm wrote: post #15

If with 'around the world' they intend to mean 'The USA and the UK' then I'm all in agreement. But the rest of the world is not that much different from 12 months ago. The article sugggests strongly that these other countries had a completely different view of their governments in the recent past but I see very little evidence of that. But in the UK (see: brexit) and in the USA (see: Trump) there definitely is a popu…

> But in the UK (see: brexit) and in the USA (see: Trump) > there definitely is a populist shift in progress. In Germany too, at least partially: The right-wing and very new "AfD", a relative newcomer, now has almost 1/10th of the votes (depending when you take the poll, results fluctuate).

Out of EU immigration (intra -EU too, but it is a bit subdued) is of great concern to great many people. Since the AfD is the only German party willing to listen about said concerns - you can safely assume they will become more popular.

Re: Trust in Government Is Collapsing Around the World

#53

Post by danieltillett »

adrianN wrote: post #48
danieltillett wrote: post #8

This just the masses realising that they have been decapitated. In all western countries the intelligent are identified at a young age and brought into the ruling class via education. There is no one left to speak for the interests of the bottom 90% nor formulate a plan to change the status quo. Faced with this it is not surprising that the masses get restless and thrash out at any symbol of authority no matter the c…

I'm university educated, where do I get my ruling class membership card? I'd like to change a few things.

If only education equaled intelligence. The intelligent might all be educated, but the educated are certainly not all intelligent :)

Re: Trust in Government Is Collapsing Around the World

#54

Post by amag »

Noseshine wrote: post #35
jacquesm wrote: post #15

If with 'around the world' they intend to mean 'The USA and the UK' then I'm all in agreement. But the rest of the world is not that much different from 12 months ago. The article sugggests strongly that these other countries had a completely different view of their governments in the recent past but I see very little evidence of that. But in the UK (see: brexit) and in the USA (see: Trump) there definitely is a popu…

> But in the UK (see: brexit) and in the USA (see: Trump) > there definitely is a populist shift in progress. In Germany too, at least partially: The right-wing and very new "AfD", a relative newcomer, now has almost 1/10th of the votes (depending when you take the poll, results fluctuate).

In Sweden as well. It seems nationalism is on the rise pretty much everywhere, just as it was a hundred yrs ago which lead to WWI (and later WWII).

Re: Trust in Government Is Collapsing Around the World

#55

Post by willvarfar »

jacquesm wrote: post #15

If with 'around the world' they intend to mean 'The USA and the UK' then I'm all in agreement. But the rest of the world is not that much different from 12 months ago. The article sugggests strongly that these other countries had a completely different view of their governments in the recent past but I see very little evidence of that. But in the UK (see: brexit) and in the USA (see: Trump) there definitely is a popu…

Italy has a left-wing anti-establishment party: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Star_Movement

Re: Trust in Government Is Collapsing Around the World

#56

Post by conanbatt »

retrogradeorbit wrote: post #6

In my opinion this is the inevitable political crisis that unrestrained neoliberalism has lead us to. [ https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/may/31/witnes... ] I'd say this is the end of the ideology but I'm too much of a realist and I expect the powers that be to now double down on it and then try and profit from it all going up in flames. (But please don't assume I am some kind of socialist/anti-capitalis…

If I were to make a broad connection between the lack of trust in government, I would attribute it to the aging of the democratic institution. In the last 15 years, scandals around voting have been huge in many elections, and the advance of technology is making how the politicians run look antiquated and unrepresentative.

I think this is more of a general response against governments who don't have the capacity to fullfill their promises,which is something that the spread of technology has made more evident.

'Neoliberalism' or libertarianism has definitely put the state under the scope and has made the bar higher: governments around the world failing to address the issue of income/wealth inequality is a case for a smaller state, not a bigger one.

Being from Argentina, believe me I understand how Neoliberalism was used as an excuse for politicians to profit from selling state assets, but then how the solution to a corrupt institution be give that institution more power? Much like the 2008 crises which was pinned on lack of regulation of banks: almost 10 years passed and no banker went to jail, and the rules are the same. Milton friedman would have said to let the banks fail, but the governments didn't, and that expectation is one of the causes cited for banks taking such large risks.

I have hopes for a future decentralized government, one where few dont hold the power of the many, and decisions are done more organically and interests can be better represented. The advent of technology is making that easier to achieve year by year.

Re: Trust in Government Is Collapsing Around the World

#57

Post by logicchains »

jacquesm wrote: post #21
mrmffh wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Race to the bottom (i.e. competition) is a good thing, it reduces waste and inefficiency.

In lala-economic-theory-land yes. But this is not companies competing for the favors of customers. This is nation states competing for the favors of companies and that is a totally different matter. In the real world you need taxes to operate a country and with big business being able to relocate their capital and their profits at a moments notice corporations have a substantial advantage over nation states (which ar…

>Having a very low corporate tax is only possible if your country does not require major infrastructure and that's one of the reasons why most tax havens are either nearly un-inhabitable (Cyprus, Panama) or extremely small (Monaco, Lichtenstein, Vaduz, Luxemburg).

Infrastructure spending represents an incredibly low percentage of government spending in most countries, see e.g https://www.nationalpriorities.org/budget-basics/federal-bud... and http://www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/uk_budget_pie_chart.

>Note that a company couldn't care less if your country roads fall into disrepair, healthcare sucks and education starts to fall behind.

East Asian countries like Korea, Taiwan, Singapore and Hong Kong maintain achieve better healthcare and education outcomes than most western countries in spite of lower government spending. While they may have less welfare spending and greater economic inequality, this certainly isn't an impediment to productivity.

Re: Trust in Government Is Collapsing Around the World

#58

Post by newjersey »

yxhuvud wrote: post #45
jacquesm wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> lefties Ah, one of those comments. Most of the EU countries where immigration is currently an issue have had 'right wing' parties leading them for a very long time. Immigration is just the easiest populist button to press to get a large number of people to vote against their own interests. One of the problems underlying all this is not immigration per-se, but the rapid and unbounded expansion of the EU to include c…

Another mistake regarding extraEU immigration is that they put all the responsibility on the Schengen border countries instead of creating a common solution for that.

> a common solution

I'm sorry for my naivety but what does that mean? I've heard this so many times. Do they want German troops on their borders? Do they want to sit back and relax while Germany feeds, clothes, and shelters their troops and law enforcement?

Now, a common solution for the refugee crisis is not possible because the problem is not the refugee crisis. The problem is that the EU is TOO WEAK.

Perhaps a naive first step towards a solution could be that all member states cede the right to tax income to the European Union. We could follow up in a few years by ceding VAT to the EU as well. Follow the money. Member states shouldn't "contribute" towards funding the EU. The EU should have the right to collect taxes.

I'm sure there are a lot of subtleties involved here but this is what I see from outside. I'd appreciate any insight as to why the naive approach is valid or invalid.

Re: Trust in Government Is Collapsing Around the World

#59

Post by dschiptsov »

lostlogin wrote: post #11
dschiptsov wrote: post #3

Why should people trust any government in the first place? Governments nowadays came to replace institutions of organized religions as the way to gain a high social status and security, and hence became as bloated, inefficient and corrupted as old, unreformed churches of the past. No sane people would 'trust' such social formations which sole purpose is self preservation and parasitic growth.

I think you need to look at "Churches of the past" a little harder. Churches had their time and while we haven't managed to get rid of them yet, we are a lot better of with a separation between them and the state.

The idea of "service to common men" goes back to antiquity. Mahayana Buddhists modeled their bodhisattvas after Brahmana priests in order to justify why peasants must pay taxes to monasteries, or why a monastery owns all the land. Catholic Church is famous for its middleman's role between men and god, where one could buy release from one's own sins. Actually, all organised religions degrade to this or that form of bargain with help of authorized servants of the common folk.

Governments just have reused this thousands years old meme that they are necessary public servants, that without them whole world would collapse the very next day they stopped performing their rituals.

We are not even speaking here about primitive authoritarian governments which have nothing but self-preservation and continuous increase of power and wealth in their agenda.

Re: Trust in Government Is Collapsing Around the World

#60

Post by rmsaksida »

lostlogin wrote: post #11
dschiptsov wrote: post #3

Why should people trust any government in the first place? Governments nowadays came to replace institutions of organized religions as the way to gain a high social status and security, and hence became as bloated, inefficient and corrupted as old, unreformed churches of the past. No sane people would 'trust' such social formations which sole purpose is self preservation and parasitic growth.

I think you need to look at "Churches of the past" a little harder. Churches had their time and while we haven't managed to get rid of them yet, we are a lot better of with a separation between them and the state.

I don't think parent is suggesting we should replace the state with religious institutions. He refers to those past institutions as "bloated, inefficient and corrupted".

His point, I believe, is that governments are largely selfish institutions and this is important to understand the decline in public trust. If the main interest of the government is self preservation - by any means necessary - their actions do not necessarily reflect public interest.

Governments only have to care about the public enough to prevent revolts and, in the case of democracies, to secure a reelection. Thanks to modern advertising, they don't even have to do that much - they often get away with just pretending. It is natural that, over time, trust in government will erode.

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