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Fatigue Is a Brain-Derived Emotion that Regulates to Ensure Protection (2012)

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Re: Fatigue Is a Brain-Derived Emotion that Regulates to Ensure Protection (2012)

#31

Post by lj3 »

ArkyBeagle wrote: post #30
lj3 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> soccer players who came in with bruises that you'd associate with a severe beating I was a lacrosse goalie in high school and didn't have the sense to wear shin pads. If you run your fingers along my shin, you'll feel divots where the bone never regenerated. I too used to walk around with bruises on my legs that you'd associate with a severe beating. > Is this because of Mountain Dew commercials and 1980s GI Joe bo…

I was 120 lbs soaking wet when I was 17. The school gently guided me away from sports. Good thing, too. Best coach I ever had. I graduated high school close to 1980. Sure, there were guys finishing the big game on a broken bone but it seems like there's a lot more emphasis on this now, and it seems more dangerous and higher risk. I have nephews and kids of friends who are electing out of organized sports. FWIW, I fee…

When I was 16, I was 130. That's after I spent three years in the weight room every day putting on muscle. I played every sport my school offered at least once, but I played football for 8 years. I never regretted it and I encourage everyone, especially the indoor geeky types, to try out for sports. Any sport. Even historical sword fighting. ;) It's an important experience that fewer kids are getting exposed to in this day and age thanks to helicopter parenting. Not to mention the life long social and health benefits

Re: Fatigue Is a Brain-Derived Emotion that Regulates to Ensure Protection (2012)

#32

Post by rorykoehler »

ArkyBeagle wrote: post #27
mrexroad wrote: post #25

My first thought was, "oh, reminds me of the SEAL's 40% rule... so if they're trained to ignore that limit, why don't they get hurt?" Then, in first google result [1], I read this: “I first met “SEAL” at a 100-mile run in San Diego and I was running this race as part of a six-person relay team with friends and he was running the entire race by himself,” Itzler said. “Who is this guy? I’ve never seen anything like it.…

Where does this come from in the larger culture? I can see why people who are soldiers or ... athletes at the varsity or pro level might be interested in it but why would anyone want to basically injure themselves as a ... hobby? I've worked with runners who had serious injury, soccer players who came in with bruises that you'd associate with a severe beating... I'm thinking "geez, it's gonna suck when you're 62." Be…

From a personal perspective I can say it's just routine. I get used to training every day and I like training with intensity (more sprint than endurance) but alas after years of repetitive strain injuries I have toned down the training load. It was unhelpful in the long run anyway as I would train for 9 months then need to sit out for 3-6 months and be back at square one (usually shin splints). My body (knees especially) aren't thanking me for it but it's nothing that can't be fixed without a good chiropractor and lots of cross training (mainly cycling and weights but yoga/pilates, running and swimming too).

I learnt a lot from how a buddy who is/was a world class 24 hour mountain bike racer trains. His view is long term, building up fitness slowly over years. I do admit I find it much harder to maintain routine now that I have pulled back the training load.

Re: Fatigue Is a Brain-Derived Emotion that Regulates to Ensure Protection (2012)

#33

Post by wallflower »

taneq wrote: post #3

This meshes perfectly with the general view of endurance athletes that performance is largely mental. If fatigue was strictly limited by lactic acid buildup then your state of mind wouldn't make such a dramatic impact.

> This meshes perfectly with the general view of endurance athletes that performance is largely mental.

Most elite endurance athletes do not hit the lactic threshold during their actual races. That is why they train so much - to build their endurance. Once you hit the lactic threshold, your body starts to break down.

Re: Fatigue Is a Brain-Derived Emotion that Regulates to Ensure Protection (2012)

#34

Post by cpard »

deciplex wrote: post #6

Anyone who has gone to the gym after a protracted absence and loss of fitness will have some intuitive understanding of this. Your brain hasn't quite gotten the memo that you're not in the shape you used to be, and it's really easy to over-exert yourself. You feel fine during the workout, then throw up afterward and take much longer to recover.

Very true. I learned this the hard way, in my case I ended up with a stress fracture. My mind was actually refusing to get the memo, even when I started feeling pain.

Re: Fatigue Is a Brain-Derived Emotion that Regulates to Ensure Protection (2012)

#35

Post by cel1ne »

gwern wrote: post #10

'Protection' might be the goal of physical fatigue, but it doesn't work for intellectual effort - what are you being 'protected from breaking' by not being able to write another line of code? Carpal tunnel? In that case, it looks more like it's about conserving energy or rotating to another task after having spent so much time on one task: "A Meta-Analysis of Blood Glucose Effects on Human Decision Making" http://www…

"The brain makes up 2% of a person's weight. Despite this, even at rest, the brain consumes 20% of the body's energy. The brain consumes energy at 10 times the rate of the rest of the body per gram of tissue. The average power consumption of a typical adult is 100 Watts and the brain consumes 20% of this making the power of the brain 20 W."

http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2001/JacquelineLing.shtml

Re: Fatigue Is a Brain-Derived Emotion that Regulates to Ensure Protection (2012)

#36

Post by cel1ne »

gryphonshafer wrote: post #11
yuningalexliu wrote: post #7

In light of this article, wonder what type of psychological training could be used to complement the typical physical training to improve athletic performance?

Maybe something that copies military basic training. It has been decades, but I can still hear my drill instructor yelling, "You aren't tired until I tell you you're tired!" He was right.

"Your body is lying to you!" is the nicer and actually correct thing to say :).

Re: Fatigue Is a Brain-Derived Emotion that Regulates to Ensure Protection (2012)

#37

Post by cel1ne »

I'm doing rather exhausting martial arts, which includes doing all movements at exact the speed in which the trainer counts.

There were moments where I felt I couldn't proceed and was exhausted. When telling that to my trainer he, correctly, said: well your muscles aren't shaking under load, so you can't be out of energy yet. After a pause of 10 seconds I was able to go on.

In my experience most physical fatigue can be countered by proper, regular and deep breathing during movement. It seems to be an oxygen-distribution problem.

Re: Fatigue Is a Brain-Derived Emotion that Regulates to Ensure Protection (2012)

#38

Post by misja111 »

mrexroad wrote: post #25

My first thought was, "oh, reminds me of the SEAL's 40% rule... so if they're trained to ignore that limit, why don't they get hurt?" Then, in first google result [1], I read this: “I first met “SEAL” at a 100-mile run in San Diego and I was running this race as part of a six-person relay team with friends and he was running the entire race by himself,” Itzler said. “Who is this guy? I’ve never seen anything like it.…

Yes I had to think of that article as well. It was on HN a while ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10711731

The 40% rule is useful if you're in combat and your life is on the line. But then again, in such a situation the adrenaline would make you ignore any pain or fatigue anyway. In normal life this 40% rule seems just stupid.

Re: Fatigue Is a Brain-Derived Emotion that Regulates to Ensure Protection (2012)

#40

Post by mantas »

wallflower wrote: post #33
taneq wrote: post #3

This meshes perfectly with the general view of endurance athletes that performance is largely mental. If fatigue was strictly limited by lactic acid buildup then your state of mind wouldn't make such a dramatic impact.

> This meshes perfectly with the general view of endurance athletes that performance is largely mental. Most elite endurance athletes do not hit the lactic threshold during their actual races. That is why they train so much - to build their endurance. Once you hit the lactic threshold, your body starts to break down.

Enduramce athletes go just bellow lactic threshold most of the time. The body is OK to go above threshold, but only for a limited time. The key is to correctly time usage of that above-threshold capability.

I race MTB. Both quick races and long, 100 miles or even 24h solo events. In a quick <3h race, I just go all-out and stay above threshold most of the time. But I try to time my above-threshold usage in long races. In one of the 24h races, the course had a single climb. I was riding everything but that climb bellow threshold. It would have been very hard to stay bellow threshold on it. While it was just a couple minutes effort above threshold.

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