Genetic link between family SES and children's educational achievement
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Re: Genetic link between family SES and children's educational achievement
#2My old hypothesis is that in a reasonably free society, families reach their "destination" socioeconomic status after 3 generations.
Even if they immigrate as refugees on rusty boats, or lose everything in a holocaust or internment camps. Or, even if they win the lottery. After three generations, they hit their level, whether it's at the bottom or the top. And then they stay there.
It's IQ, an absence of stimulation-seeking behavior, a long mental time horizon, and a non-susceptibility to addictive chemicals or behaviors, and an absence of costly mental and physical diseases. It's genetic.
Re: Genetic link between family SES and children's educational achievement
#3I have always wondered what exactly is going on in society:
People in the US, more so than other countries, have a plausible chance of going to college, even if it takes going in to massive debt.
Then, they will go on to find a mate who is likely also college educated, and in a similar income bracket.
Over time, doesn't this mean that we're breeding (for lack of a better term) a class of people who are a) capable of being educated and b) seek out education? Doesn't this only widen the achievement gap?
Not proposing a solution, but I suspect if we were to take this stuff seriously, we could make serious inroads to addressing inequality.
On the other hand, as a country we rightfully (IMO) believe everyone is equal and work hard to provide opportunity for everyone.
What's the right move here?
Re: Genetic link between family SES and children's educational achievement
#4I have always wondered what exactly is going on in society: People in the US, more so than other countries, have a plausible chance of going to college, even if it takes going in to massive debt. Then, they will go on to find a mate who is likely also college educated, and in a similar income bracket. Over time, doesn't this mean that we're breeding (for lack of a better term) a class of people who are a) capable of…
At the speed science and technology are progressing, Darwinian evolution is more or less irrelevant as far as humans are concerned. We'll have IQ enhancing drugs, invented hard AI to take care of us or cured age death long before random DNA mutations or "breeding" adds or subtracts a few IQ points to our descendants. There are a lot of things we should worry about but genetics of future humans isn't one of them in my opinion.
Re: Genetic link between family SES and children's educational achievement
#5I have always wondered what exactly is going on in society: People in the US, more so than other countries, have a plausible chance of going to college, even if it takes going in to massive debt. Then, they will go on to find a mate who is likely also college educated, and in a similar income bracket. Over time, doesn't this mean that we're breeding (for lack of a better term) a class of people who are a) capable of…
Equal opportunity, not equal outcome or talent.
Re: Genetic link between family SES and children's educational achievement
#6I have always wondered what exactly is going on in society: People in the US, more so than other countries, have a plausible chance of going to college, even if it takes going in to massive debt. Then, they will go on to find a mate who is likely also college educated, and in a similar income bracket. Over time, doesn't this mean that we're breeding (for lack of a better term) a class of people who are a) capable of…
The Bell Curve (1994) talked about the intellectual stratification that is happening in society. The author and resulting research was called "racist" and has been shouted down time and time again but much of what you say is discussed in the book. He shows correlation between intelligence and [income, parent's socioeconomic status (SES), job security/unemployment, educational attainment, and tons of other things]. The data is sporadic pre-WW2 but complete and well-validated afterwards. He avoids drawing conclusions or prescribing solutions.
All of it is interesting and some is compelling, but the book is generally forbidden to be discussed in "polite" company.
The interesting thing about the book.. to reduce the "racist" attacks, the author only looked at white people throughout the bulk of the book.
Re: Genetic link between family SES and children's educational achievement
#7My old hypothesis is that in a reasonably free society, families reach their "destination" socioeconomic status after 3 generations. Even if they immigrate as refugees on rusty boats, or lose everything in a holocaust or internment camps. Or, even if they win the lottery. After three generations, they hit their level, whether it's at the bottom or the top. And then they stay there. It's IQ, an absence of stimulation-…
Correct me if I'm misreading, but I have a hard time seeing how the study supports your hypothesis. In the "Discussion" section, the authors state that their heritability estimate for educational attainment was 31%, and only 20% for SES. That still leaves the door open for significant social influence.
The authors summarize: "Our findings add weight to the view that genetic variation plays an important, but not exclusive, role in educational inequalities and social mobility, which is at variance with views, that still prevail in some quarters, that these are solely the product of social forces and environmental inequalities." In other words, they only take themselves to have refuted the strawman view that observed differences "are solely the product of social forces."
Re: Genetic link between family SES and children's educational achievement
#8I have always wondered what exactly is going on in society: People in the US, more so than other countries, have a plausible chance of going to college, even if it takes going in to massive debt. Then, they will go on to find a mate who is likely also college educated, and in a similar income bracket. Over time, doesn't this mean that we're breeding (for lack of a better term) a class of people who are a) capable of…
The Bell Curve (1994) talked about the intellectual stratification that is happening in society. The author and resulting research was called "racist" and has been shouted down time and time again but much of what you say is discussed in the book. He shows correlation between intelligence and [income, parent's socioeconomic status (SES), job security/unemployment, educational attainment, and tons of other things]. Th…
Wow, fascinating, thanks for the book reference.
Reading the wikipedia article made me uncomfortable - I doubt a book like that would ever be written today.
Re: Genetic link between family SES and children's educational achievement
#9My old hypothesis is that in a reasonably free society, families reach their "destination" socioeconomic status after 3 generations. Even if they immigrate as refugees on rusty boats, or lose everything in a holocaust or internment camps. Or, even if they win the lottery. After three generations, they hit their level, whether it's at the bottom or the top. And then they stay there. It's IQ, an absence of stimulation-…
Correct me if I'm misreading, but I have a hard time seeing how the study supports your hypothesis. In the "Discussion" section, the authors state that their heritability estimate for educational attainment was 31%, and only 20% for SES. That still leaves the door open for significant social influence. The authors summarize: "Our findings add weight to the view that genetic variation plays an important, but not exclu…
Worth reading: http://slatestarcodex.com/2016/03/16/non-shared-environment-...
He makes a lot of points here, but the most important IMO is that many measurements are noisy, and the correlation between X and Y+noise is less than the correlation between X and Y.
Re: Genetic link between family SES and children's educational achievement
#10It is annoying how such studies presume that genetics are a factor in academic achievement.
They can be evidence that social mobility is not happening and that academic achievement requires a certain attitude by the parents and their social class.