Interns Get Fired En Masse After Protesting Dress Code at Work • Hacker News Board

Re: Interns Get Fired En Masse After Protesting Dress Code at Work

#21

Post by masklinn » Sat, Jul 02, 2016, 1:41 PM UTC

jasonkostempski wrote: post #19

hk__2 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Protesting something like this is a good signal of their attitude/perspective. Why? They saw something they didn’t like and wrote a letter suggesting an alternative. I see that as a very good attitude.

They based their anger on a stupid assumption and didn't bother to get clarification before going full steam ahead. This wasn't a protest, it was an angry mob.

> didn't bother to get clarification before going full steam ahead

According to the original report they tried to and were shut down:

> I spoke with my manager about being allowed some leeway under the dress code and was told this was not possible, despite the other person being allowed to do it. I soon found out that many of the other interns felt the same way, and the ones who asked their managers about it were told the same thing as me.

They were told it was a medical exemption after having been summarily fired.

> This wasn't a protest, it was an angry mob.

Are you off your rocker? They wrote a fucking proposal they didn't try to put management to the torch.

Re: Interns Get Fired En Masse After Protesting Dress Code at Work

#22

Post by blktiger » Sat, Jul 02, 2016, 1:44 PM UTC

jasonkostempski wrote: post #19

hk__2 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Protesting something like this is a good signal of their attitude/perspective. Why? They saw something they didn’t like and wrote a letter suggesting an alternative. I see that as a very good attitude.

They based their anger on a stupid assumption and didn't bother to get clarification before going full steam ahead. This wasn't a protest, it was an angry mob.

Angry mobs don't write letters.

Re: Interns Get Fired En Masse After Protesting Dress Code at Work

#23

Post by yesiamyourdad » Sat, Jul 02, 2016, 1:44 PM UTC

masklinn wrote: post #12

dingo_bat wrote: post #2

I think they shouldn't have complained about something that everyone was following, and a formal code is not very uncommon. I also think that firing everyone point blank just because they wrote a letter is an extreme overreaction. They could have been lectured on professional behavior instead and I'm sure most of them would have understood.

> I think they shouldn't have complained about something that everyone was following > they weren’t going to complain. That is, “until I noticed one of the workers always wore flat shoes that were made from a fabric other than leather, or running shoes, even though both of these things were contrary to the dress code.” The interns were told that was a medical exemption… after they were mass-fired, but not when they i…

This is basically an article reporting on an advice column, so it's pretty light on details. Given that the incident was framed as a protest, I'd say that there was likely more to it than simply writing a letter. It could be that the letter took a disrespectful tone, or it could be that they backed up the letter with some kind of protest action. Or maybe the employer is just a douchey company. You can't really tell.

Personally I can't imagine a story like this even occurring in 1986. The whole idea of mass protest over something trivial is a very 21st century concept.

Re: Interns Get Fired En Masse After Protesting Dress Code at Work

#24

Post by cddotdotslash » Sat, Jul 02, 2016, 1:45 PM UTC

anu7df wrote: post #14

Is there possibly more to this story? As it stands it looks like the interns made a polite request and fired for it. I understand the "intern is a guest" argument, but he/she is also a future employee playing that part and would like to be treated as such. If any polite request is countered by firing I can't imagine that will be a good place to work.

A polite request is asking their respective managers about the dress code and whether it can be relaxed. Creating a petition, circling it among the entire intern group, and essentially demanding change at a place that was generous enough to hire them for a learning experience is not a polite request.

I interned at four separate companies when I was younger. I would have never even conceived the idea of doing something like this. Besides the fact that it's three months (seriously, they couldn't wear dress clothes for three months?), a company is not a democracy. I think this might be a side effect of my generation being told they can change anything they want in the world just by signing a petition.

Re: Interns Get Fired En Masse After Protesting Dress Code at Work

#25

Post by masklinn » Sat, Jul 02, 2016, 1:46 PM UTC

yesiamyourdad wrote: post #23

masklinn wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think they shouldn't have complained about something that everyone was following > they weren’t going to complain. That is, “until I noticed one of the workers always wore flat shoes that were made from a fabric other than leather, or running shoes, even though both of these things were contrary to the dress code.” The interns were told that was a medical exemption… after they were mass-fired, but not when they i…

This is basically an article reporting on an advice column, so it's pretty light on details. Given that the incident was framed as a protest, I'd say that there was likely more to it than simply writing a letter. It could be that the letter took a disrespectful tone, or it could be that they backed up the letter with some kind of protest action. Or maybe the employer is just a douchey company. You can't really tell.…

> Given that the incident was framed as a protest

The yahoo repost/clickbait framed it as a protest with no evidence I can see, the original source does not frame it as a protest: http://www.askamanager.org/2016/06/i-was-fired-from-my-inter...

Re: Interns Get Fired En Masse After Protesting Dress Code at Work

#26

Post by Houshalter » Sat, Jul 02, 2016, 1:46 PM UTC

According to the article they didn't even disobey the dress code, or cause any real commotion. They just sent a letter just asking for a rule to be changed slightly for practical reasons.

Is it really ethical to fire an entire group of people for merely questioning a rule? Is this really evidence they are "entitled" as comments here are saying? Perhaps the letter was worded very rudely?

Re: Interns Get Fired En Masse After Protesting Dress Code at Work

#27

Post by timonovici » Sat, Jul 02, 2016, 1:46 PM UTC

jessriedel wrote: post #4

dingo_bat wrote: post #2

I think they shouldn't have complained about something that everyone was following, and a formal code is not very uncommon. I also think that firing everyone point blank just because they wrote a letter is an extreme overreaction. They could have been lectured on professional behavior instead and I'm sure most of them would have understood.

Punishment completely aside, as an employer I'd simply want nothing to do with these intern in the future. Protesting something like this is a good signal of their attitude/perspective.

So, you would just fire people because they wanted to wear more comfortable shoes, and they sent a letter about it? There are places where shoes/clothing really matters, like a mechanics shop (with their overalls), a construction site (the steel reinforcement of the tip of the shoe), a woodworking shop, where baggy clothing could lead to injury - but that's definitely not the case in the article. These control freaks really annoy me, and I feel lucky to work in IT, most of the places I worked so far would allow you to wear short pants, or whatever.

Re: Interns Get Fired En Masse After Protesting Dress Code at Work

#28

Post by empthought » Sat, Jul 02, 2016, 1:49 PM UTC

anu7df wrote: post #14

Is there possibly more to this story? As it stands it looks like the interns made a polite request and fired for it. I understand the "intern is a guest" argument, but he/she is also a future employee playing that part and would like to be treated as such. If any polite request is countered by firing I can't imagine that will be a good place to work.

Individual polite requests would likely have been denied without the firing. However, the group participated in collective action, which many employers simply cannot tolerate, whether it's about dress codes, compensation, working conditions, or anything else.

Re: Interns Get Fired En Masse After Protesting Dress Code at Work

#29

Post by golergka » Sat, Jul 02, 2016, 1:50 PM UTC

yesiamyourdad wrote: post #17

jrowley wrote: post #6

I got a job recently that requires business formal dress code. It's was a little frustrating until I read somewhere that by wearing dress clothes your are allowing yourself to kind of be branded by the company and in that way I appreciated it because it allows me to partition my identity into work and nonwork. Part of me still thinks I'd be more productive and happier in my normal street clothes though.

My first couple jobs required dress pants, a long sleeve button down shirt, and a tie. Back then "casual friday" was a real thing, you could wear a polo and khakis. These days unless you're an attorney or in finance, nobody wears a suit. I work at a place that has a dress code that harks back to the early 90s. After spending my 20's griping about dress codes, I actually enjoy it for the same reason: it's a physical r…

I think that part of modern work culture is not separating work and non-work identities. I only have this much waking hours a day, it's not enoigh time to maintain two separate identities anyway.

Re: Interns Get Fired En Masse After Protesting Dress Code at Work

#30

Post by masklinn » Sat, Jul 02, 2016, 1:51 PM UTC

cddotdotslash wrote: post #24

anu7df wrote: post #14

Is there possibly more to this story? As it stands it looks like the interns made a polite request and fired for it. I understand the "intern is a guest" argument, but he/she is also a future employee playing that part and would like to be treated as such. If any polite request is countered by firing I can't imagine that will be a good place to work.

A polite request is asking their respective managers about the dress code and whether it can be relaxed. Creating a petition, circling it among the entire intern group, and essentially demanding change at a place that was generous enough to hire them for a learning experience is not a polite request. I interned at four separate companies when I was younger. I would have never even conceived the idea of doing somethin…

> A polite request is asking their respective managers about the dress code and whether it can be relaxed

Which, according to the original source, is exactly what they did with the supporting argument that at least one employee didn't follow dress code, resulting in them being shut down with no answer:

> I felt the dress code was overly strict but I wasn’t going to say anything, until I noticed one of the workers always wore flat shoes that were made from a fabric other than leather, or running shoes, even though both of these things were contrary to the dress code.

> I spoke with my manager about being allowed some leeway under the dress code and was told this was not possible, despite the other person being allowed to do it. I soon found out that many of the other interns felt the same way, and the ones who asked their managers about it were told the same thing as me.