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Servo Nightly Builds Available

blog.servo.org

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Re: Servo Nightly Builds Available

#221

Post by nickpsecurity »

anonbanker wrote: post #194
coldtea wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like it's so rewritten compared to Trident, it's not even alike anymore.

This comment is a perfect example why arguing over proprietary software is mostly conjecture: nobody can look at the code and see what's different.

I'll mostly agree with that. Harder to do looking at assembler. However, at behavioral level, you can just black box it to see if it passes acceptance tests for desired outputs. If it does, it might be same for your needs. If it doesnt, it's clearly a problem.

Your point applies totally if we're talking the How instead of the What.

Re: Servo Nightly Builds Available

#222

Post by Aldo_MX »

MichaelGG wrote: post #206
lisivka wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sorry to inform you, but Windows is considered harmful, so this is good etiquette now, also known as "word of mouth". You can download and run Linux in fraction of time you will need to argue that this is bad for a user. Download Linux. Download Servo. Run Linux. Run Servo. Profit.

Yeah I wish Linux desktop was that great. I run Xubuntu for dev work (Rust actually). Even really trivial things, like making the edges of the windows easy to grab to resize -- they get totally wrong: the target area is 1px or so. (Yes I know, Alt+Right click is an option, and I should really just use XMonad.) I go search for this issue. Sure enough, many years ago people were talking about this issue, and it's just…

The Linux philosophy is to do one thing, and do it well, this is why they get impeccable codebases, but bad UI/UX design.

Jokes aside, I stopped fighting desktop environments and embraced Ubuntu's Unity some years ago, at the end I learned to appreciate it and nowadays I feel more comfortable with Ubuntu than with OS X.

I still prefer Windows over Ubuntu, but because I have added several utilities to my workflow like Everything Search Engine or WinSplit Revolution (now defunct), not because of Windows' own merits.

I just wish there could be a way to have OS X's hotkeys in Windows, since CMD + is more comfortable to press than Ctrl + . I also miss having the behavior CMD + Tab / CMD + ` and the ubiquity of CMD + ,

Re: Servo Nightly Builds Available

#223

Post by pslam »

I know it's not the point, but having this publicly available in such a usable form - even with this bare minimum UI - is a huge milestone. A big barrier to adoption I hear from many potential users is, "Are there any big users of Rust yet? No? Why would we?" This answers that.

Half jokingly, all you need now is an emscripten target, so it can be run inside a browser, and anyone can try it out without needing to install an app :)

Re: Servo Nightly Builds Available

#224

Post by moosingin3space »

reddotX wrote: post #94
pcwalton wrote: post #2

Happy to answer questions (when I wake up; getting this ready has been a lot of work, needless to say) :) It goes without saying, but as this is the very first nightly (not by any means a full-fledged release), expect severe bugs, crashes, and missing functionality. Many of your favorite sites will be broken. Don't expect to use this as your everyday browser. We'd love feedback on what issues folks hit the most, so w…

any change of a snap or flatpak for linux?

I've started working on a flatpak.

Re: Servo Nightly Builds Available

#225

Post by moosingin3space »

pslam wrote: post #223

I know it's not the point, but having this publicly available in such a usable form - even with this bare minimum UI - is a huge milestone. A big barrier to adoption I hear from many potential users is, "Are there any big users of Rust yet? No? Why would we?" This answers that. Half jokingly, all you need now is an emscripten target, so it can be run inside a browser, and anyone can try it out without needing to inst…

> all you need now is an emscripten target

The thing I love about the programming community is that even though that's clearly meant as a joke, someone'll make it happen, just to see if they can do it :)

Re: Servo Nightly Builds Available

#226

Post by lisivka »

Aldo_MX wrote: post #222
MichaelGG wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I wish Linux desktop was that great. I run Xubuntu for dev work (Rust actually). Even really trivial things, like making the edges of the windows easy to grab to resize -- they get totally wrong: the target area is 1px or so. (Yes I know, Alt+Right click is an option, and I should really just use XMonad.) I go search for this issue. Sure enough, many years ago people were talking about this issue, and it's just…

The Linux philosophy is to do one thing, and do it well, this is why they get impeccable codebases, but bad UI/UX design. Jokes aside, I stopped fighting desktop environments and embraced Ubuntu's Unity some years ago, at the end I learned to appreciate it and nowadays I feel more comfortable with Ubuntu than with OS X. I still prefer Windows over Ubuntu, but because I have added several utilities to my workflow like…

Hey, stop that. This topic is about nightly builds and contributing to open source project. Linux is great for that because it made by developers and for developers, and not because it has a polished UI/UX. Linux UI is rough. Accept that.

Re: Servo Nightly Builds Available

#227

Post by MichaelGG »

gsnedders wrote: post #205
MichaelGG wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Implementing SIP a couple of times, part of it is the other implementations just flat-out misread. Even when there's a formal syntax specified, they simply ignore it. For instance, SIP specifies a "lr" (loose route) parameter. The syntax is just that: lr. But many implementations get it wrong and require a value, like lr=1, or lr=true. Even things as simple as line endings are implemented wrong (in HTTP too), and tha…

> SIP and the IETF to some extent encourages this with Postel's Law, telling implementors they should guess what the intention of the message is. We need less of VB's On Error Resume Next and more panic-abort type functionality. I don't think it's as clear-cut as that. I think the main thing is error handling must be defined: it doesn't matter whether it's panic-abort or whether it's defined how to deal with any stre…

Well the error handling is defined. Return a 400 Bad Request. Except implementors are encouraged to try to avoid that if they can make guesses.

Re: Servo Nightly Builds Available

#228

Post by kbenson »

nickpsecurity wrote: post #216
kbenson wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but if it behaves significantly differently, then I think that precludes it from being a function by function rewrite. At the same time, a component by component rewrite can be a complete rewrite (but it depends a bit more on the details, I think). If the mainly user visible portions are rewritten, but much of the utility code and other components are not, it may appear behaviorally different, but but be largel…

Re rewrite differences Let's look at the grep example agsin. If it did same thing, but new interface, then it would be same thing because behavior is otherwise the same. Now, lets say you changed what pattern-matching itself produced where you no longer got the same results from same text. Matched totally different patterns unless you changed the text you are inputting to get same results again. And the interface was…

> Let's look at the grep example agsin. If it did same thing, but new interface, then it would be same thing because behavior is otherwise the same.

That sort of depends on how you define "behavior". More specifically, if it matches something equivalent but different to regular expressions (even if it's just a character transliteration to regular expression syntax), then does the behavior change? Is that still grep? Maybe, if grep decides the the "new grep2 have an easier to learn matching language". It's not like we haven't seen that before.

> I mean, I still think sameness or newness is an open issue.

Sure! The vast majority of cases it probably is an open issue, because different people have different criteria. I was just pointing out that the wording from MS doesn't necessarily imply a rewrite as many people might define it, because we have very little context to go on in the statement, and different people have different ideas about what is the browser. The rendering engine? The UI? The JS VM? All of them combined?

I can totally see someone responsible for the rendering engine saying "we rewrote most of the source code" and the JS VM guys scratching their heads wondering what the hell they are talking about, because they definitely didn't rewrite most their code, and they think their component is a significant portion of the browser...

Re: Servo Nightly Builds Available

#229

Post by Aldo_MX »

lisivka wrote: post #226
Aldo_MX wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Linux philosophy is to do one thing, and do it well, this is why they get impeccable codebases, but bad UI/UX design. Jokes aside, I stopped fighting desktop environments and embraced Ubuntu's Unity some years ago, at the end I learned to appreciate it and nowadays I feel more comfortable with Ubuntu than with OS X. I still prefer Windows over Ubuntu, but because I have added several utilities to my workflow like…

Hey, stop that. This topic is about nightly builds and contributing to open source project. Linux is great for that because it made by developers and for developers, and not because it has a polished UI/UX. Linux UI is rough. Accept that.

This specific branch was to ask for an ETA for the Windows Nightly, and you hijacked it. I advised you to refrain from hijacking it and you began spitting anti-Windows nonsense like a freshman who drank the Linux cool-aid for the first time.

This is not the place to discuss about operating systems, and people expect from you to respect their preference.

Linux has its technical merits, and because of them it is the most used OS in servers, supercomputers and niches like web development, but it also has its weaknesses, and because of them it isn't the most used OS in homes or corporations.

OTOH, there already exists a Linux distribution which is more popular than Windows, it's named Android, you've probably heard of it. It is a disaster in comparison with Windows, it gets locked, bloated and abandoned by phone manufacturers, phones get declared obsolete ridiculously fast and people are left without even security updates, you don't even have the ability to "format" a phone unless someone breaks a vulnerability to gain root access.

People blinded by Linux usually overlook the disaster behind Android because they're too accustomed to focus their attention in the issues of Windows, but no OS is perfect and people will choose the OS that works better for them, you must learn to accept and respect their decision.

Re: Servo Nightly Builds Available

#230

Post by steveklabnik »

pslam wrote: post #223

I know it's not the point, but having this publicly available in such a usable form - even with this bare minimum UI - is a huge milestone. A big barrier to adoption I hear from many potential users is, "Are there any big users of Rust yet? No? Why would we?" This answers that. Half jokingly, all you need now is an emscripten target, so it can be run inside a browser, and anyone can try it out without needing to inst…

You can also point them at https://www.rust-lang.org/friends.html !
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