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Ask HN: Just got an innocent man out of prison. What now?

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Re: Ask HN: Just got an innocent man out of prison. What now?

#181

Post by brbsix »

moptar wrote: post #177

I don't understand why there's such unanimous words of support for someone who directly contributed to the half million deaths in the Iraq war. I know it's unrelated to his case, but perhaps his prison sentence and current predicament can be seen as karmic retribution. I know that's not how justice works, but I don't think we'd see such enthusiastic support for a serial killer who had trouble supporting himself after…

The way society is presently arranged, military personnel are absolved of (a great deal of) their moral agency. They have surrendered it to a higher authority, to the state. You can see it experientially in the Milgram experiment. It's incredible more people don't find this troubling, it has me at a loss for words.

Re: Ask HN: Just got an innocent man out of prison. What now?

#182

Post by ZenoArrow »

spacehome wrote: post #176
ZenoArrow wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So someone who has made mistakes in the past but is trying to turn their life around doesn't deserve your respect?

Honestly? If that's all I knew about this hypothetical person, then no, I would not feel they deserve my respect. I feel like "trying to turn their life around" is code for doing the bare minimum to live in a civilized society. (Get a legal job, pay your taxes, take care of your kids, and don't break the law)

> "I feel like "trying to turn their life around" is code for doing the bare minimum to live in a civilized society. (Get a legal job, pay your taxes, take care of your kids, and don't break the law)"

For some people, that's a massive change compared to what they've experienced in the past. Those things may all seem easy to us, but imagine if you had the opposite habits and how difficult it could be to take the unfamiliar path towards civilised society.

Out of interest, do you feel the same about drug addicts and alcoholics who make an effort to break their addictions? Are they deserving of respect in your eyes?

Re: Ask HN: Just got an innocent man out of prison. What now?

#183

Post by tempestn »

tardo99 wrote: post #82
ClintEhrlich wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but I can't talk about them because it's part of an active investigation.

Also, was there one piece of evidence that really proved he couldn't have done it? I read a bunch of it, and it sounds like you can't prove anything beyond a reasonable doubt, but that he still might have done it (meaning, there just isn't much to go on).

Your comment might be read to imply that he shouldn't be exonerated unless proven innocent, but giving the benefit of the doubt I expect you're just wondering whether the evidence does in fact prove innocence, or whether it was simply shown not to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt (both of which should result in exoneration). I'm curious myself.

Re: Ask HN: Just got an innocent man out of prison. What now?

#184

Post by sago »

ClintEhrlich wrote: post #127
developer2 wrote: post #118

I know this is off topic to the direct question at hand but his case, assuming the talking points found on this page I found[1] are true, is scary. No evidence whatsoever, including fingernail DNA that excluded him? What the actual fuck. >> Mr. Jennings voluntarily submitted to hours of police interviews and interrogations and a polygraph test without objection or legal representation. >> The evidence presented again…

If you are interested in learning about the case, I recommend reading the letter that my father and I sent to the District Attorney's office: http://www.ehrlichfirm.com/jennings/Ray-Jennings-Letter-to-C...

That is a superb document, Clint. Thank you for your efforts.

Re: Ask HN: Just got an innocent man out of prison. What now?

#185

Post by tempestn »

moptar wrote: post #178

It's also responsible for the destruction of Iraq and the emergence of ISIS. Are you really proud that your personal success rides on the back of so many innocent lives being lost?

Did he say he was? He said the army gave him valuable training and experience, not that he agrees with everything the country's leadership has chosen to do with it.

Re: Ask HN: Just got an innocent man out of prison. What now?

#186

Post by Rexxar »

I'm maybe a little optimistic but why not ask a big and rich university to give him a free education and shelter for 3/4 years ? It could be good for him and for the university image (It would be a better usage of university money than recruiting people bases on their athletics skills IMHO).

Re: Ask HN: Just got an innocent man out of prison. What now?

#187

Post by drjesusphd »

gmac wrote: post #180
drjesusphd wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is dangerous advice. Chances are you cannot "handle your business" to such an extent that you can out-maneuver professionals with years of training whose sole aim is to put you behind bars. Don't talk to police.

I'm not qualified to say whether this is good advice from an individual's perspective, but from the point of view of a society that would like justice to be done this is just extraordinarily screwed up. How are the police going to solve crimes if nobody will talk to them?

They can start by regaining the trust of the public.

Re: Ask HN: Just got an innocent man out of prison. What now?

#188

Post by amelius »

> The most obvious answer is litigation. And in a year or two, Ray will probably receive some compensation from the State. Unfortunately, there's no way to access those funds in time to cover his immediate expenses.

Make sure this money gets managed properly. You don't want him to spend this money in just a few months.

Re: Ask HN: Just got an innocent man out of prison. What now?

#189

Post by auganov »

moptar wrote: post #177

I don't understand why there's such unanimous words of support for someone who directly contributed to the half million deaths in the Iraq war. I know it's unrelated to his case, but perhaps his prison sentence and current predicament can be seen as karmic retribution. I know that's not how justice works, but I don't think we'd see such enthusiastic support for a serial killer who had trouble supporting himself after…

I don't think most people mind killing that much. It's only murder that makes [most of] us uncomfortable. And given that no society can afford great compensation for every soldier, extreme reverence is all we've got.

And in regards to other states it's pretty much a Prisoner's Dilemma.

Re: Ask HN: Just got an innocent man out of prison. What now?

#190

Post by spacehome »

ZenoArrow wrote: post #182
spacehome wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly? If that's all I knew about this hypothetical person, then no, I would not feel they deserve my respect. I feel like "trying to turn their life around" is code for doing the bare minimum to live in a civilized society. (Get a legal job, pay your taxes, take care of your kids, and don't break the law)

> "I feel like "trying to turn their life around" is code for doing the bare minimum to live in a civilized society. (Get a legal job, pay your taxes, take care of your kids, and don't break the law)" For some people, that's a massive change compared to what they've experienced in the past. Those things may all seem easy to us, but imagine if you had the opposite habits and how difficult it could be to take the unfam…

While you're right that certain things may be quite difficult, just getting to zero or baseline is not enough for me to respect someone when I view their poor circumstance or difficulties as the direct consequence of their poor (and illegal) choices. I get to decide the way I feel about people, and breaking an addiction doesn't meet my bar. Similarly, I don't tell others how they should feel.
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