A Tragic Loss • Hacker News Board

Re: A Tragic Loss

#21

Post by Jaruzel » Fri, Jul 01, 2016, 9:04 AM UTC

tpatke wrote: post #11

Not good enough. I think Tesla have a lot to answer for here. They are pushing the limits of a technology which Google has said, "needs to be 100% autonomous". No steering wheel. Tesla knows this, but branded their car as 'auto-pilot' anyway. When it became clear from early youtube videos that people were not using the technology 'correctly' Tesla did nothing more than issuing a statement. They should be considering…

They don't even have to do a recall; All Teslas can be updated (or in this case, downgraded) over the air. All they need to do is either learn from this and fix the 'white vehicle against a white sky' problem, or remove the 'auto-pilot' feature completely, until they actually develop proper auto-pilot.

Paraphrasing from JFK: We choose to make auto-driving cars, not because it is easy, but because it is hard.

There will be casulties along the way. Deaths are not a reason to stifle development. If we'd done that, we'd never have spaceflight or Vaccines (or Nuclear Weapons for that matter...) .

Re: A Tragic Loss

#22

Post by Svip » Fri, Jul 01, 2016, 9:05 AM UTC

martin_bech wrote: post #16

KaiserPro wrote: post #6

The main problem with all of this, is that its not a true autopilot. In fact its the worst kind of autopilot. one that bails out at the last minute leaving you fuck all time to take action. telsa's autopilot is level 3, which means freeway driving only: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autonomous_car#Classification The thing I fear now is the toxic mix of fanboyism and excessive PR management reminiscent of the worst ex…

The thing I fear now, is fearmongering by people who dont drive Teslas, havent spent time with Autosteer/autopilot and ignore that this was a freak accident, that probably would have killed the driver regardless of using autopilot. This is the future of roadsafety.

Good point. But I think it is too early to call this a 'freak accident', because we don't know enough.

Tesla have statistics on their side so far, but they still have not done a fraction of kilometres travelled by conventional means.

I hope the technology moves forward, but the technology is not there yet and won't be appearing on a majority of new cars for decades.

I predict - moreso than fear - that as more of these incidents occur (and I am confident there will be more), more people will lose their trust in self-driving cars.

Consider the following: The safest form of transportation is air travel. Yet despite the overwhelming evidence in air transport's favour, a significant portion of people are afraid to get on an aeroplane. Indeed, an aeroplane can practical fly itself (and have been able to for decades), yet few of us would feel safe if there wasn't a pilot on board.

Surely the same fears will soon apply to self-driving cars?

Re: A Tragic Loss

#23

Post by mschuster91 » Fri, Jul 01, 2016, 9:07 AM UTC

Swizec wrote: post #20

martin_bech wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing I fear now, is fearmongering by people who dont drive Teslas, havent spent time with Autosteer/autopilot and ignore that this was a freak accident, that probably would have killed the driver regardless of using autopilot. This is the future of roadsafety.

Or MAYBE it's time to install safety skirts on trucks just like they do in Europe? There's no reason why an entire sedan should fit under the trailer of a truck. This is what a truck designed for safety looks like: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3f/Artic.lo... Notice how no part of it is higher off the ground than a foot or so. Way too low for a car to fit under. This is what truck in the US looks l…

> There's no reason why an entire sedan should fit under the trailer of a truck.

There is, it's called capitalism, and a safety skirt costs money.

The fix is, as in many cases, regulations. However, I believe that even the shown safety skirt leaves too much space below, and especially exposed tires, which is still dangerous for pedestrians and bikers.

Re: A Tragic Loss

#24

Post by wibr » Fri, Jul 01, 2016, 9:09 AM UTC

jrv wrote: post #9

manmal wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, as far as I can read, Teslas don't have LIDARs yet (but they are reported to have them, soon: http://electrek.co/2016/03/18/tesla-model-s-test-vehicle-aut... ).

There is a radar, but it turns off in that situation, as Elon explained in a tweet: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/748625979271045121

It doesn't turn off, it just ignores things that are probably something else.

Re: A Tragic Loss

#25

Post by mschuster91 » Fri, Jul 01, 2016, 9:09 AM UTC

hellofunk wrote: post #14

> It is important to note > It is important to emphasize I am getting so disappointed by how widespread this wasteful use of the English language has become. The phrase is just filler and means nothing, yet it is used everywhere, nearly every HN thread has someone who uses it. If you need to note something, then note it. By putting it into words, you have said "this is important enough to actually say it." Further sa…

> The phrase is just filler and means nothing, yet it is used everywhere

I guess this is due to legal concerns (which also provided us with pages-long email footer legalese bullcrap).

Re: A Tragic Loss

#26

Post by vadym909 » Fri, Jul 01, 2016, 9:10 AM UTC

This is just beyond me. How did the radars not see the front portion of the truck, the front wheels, the underbody of the container isn't that high to let the entire car go through?

Re: A Tragic Loss

#27

Post by Aoyagi » Fri, Jul 01, 2016, 9:11 AM UTC

tpatke wrote: post #11

Not good enough. I think Tesla have a lot to answer for here. They are pushing the limits of a technology which Google has said, "needs to be 100% autonomous". No steering wheel. Tesla knows this, but branded their car as 'auto-pilot' anyway. When it became clear from early youtube videos that people were not using the technology 'correctly' Tesla did nothing more than issuing a statement. They should be considering…

>When it became clear from early youtube videos that people were not using the technology 'correctly' Tesla did nothing more than issuing a statement.

Is personal responsibility something that's completely taboo nowadays?

Re: A Tragic Loss

#28

Post by kek918 » Fri, Jul 01, 2016, 9:12 AM UTC

hellofunk wrote: post #14

> It is important to note > It is important to emphasize I am getting so disappointed by how widespread this wasteful use of the English language has become. The phrase is just filler and means nothing, yet it is used everywhere, nearly every HN thread has someone who uses it. If you need to note something, then note it. By putting it into words, you have said "this is important enough to actually say it." Further sa…

I kind of agree but I think there's a few subtle changes as to how you phrase it.

I sometimes type "Please note " to make sure the recipient pays extra attention to this bit and actually notices it, because people have a tendency to read through email very quickly and skip vital parts. I know this for a fact based on stupid responses I've gotten.

"Please note" never implies it should actually be noted on a piece of paper, just notice it and ready it thoroughly.

"It should be noted" - however, could be interpreted as you want the recipient to actually write it on a note.

Edit: And yes, Tesla's use of "It is important to note" kind of falls in the gray zone for me... but I've never even considered this an issue

Re: A Tragic Loss

#29

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Jul 01, 2016, 9:12 AM UTC

Jaruzel wrote: post #21

tpatke wrote: post #11

Not good enough. I think Tesla have a lot to answer for here. They are pushing the limits of a technology which Google has said, "needs to be 100% autonomous". No steering wheel. Tesla knows this, but branded their car as 'auto-pilot' anyway. When it became clear from early youtube videos that people were not using the technology 'correctly' Tesla did nothing more than issuing a statement. They should be considering…

They don't even have to do a recall; All Teslas can be updated (or in this case, downgraded) over the air. All they need to do is either learn from this and fix the 'white vehicle against a white sky' problem, or remove the 'auto-pilot' feature completely, until they actually develop proper auto-pilot. Paraphrasing from JFK: We choose to make auto-driving cars, not because it is easy, but because it is hard. There wi…

[deleted]

Re: A Tragic Loss

#30

Post by Svip » Fri, Jul 01, 2016, 9:12 AM UTC

vadym909 wrote: post #26

This is just beyond me. How did the radars not see the front portion of the truck, the front wheels, the underbody of the container isn't that high to let the entire car go through?

This is what I was wondering too. Which is also why I predict (although basically speculating!) that an alert driver would have noticed the actual lorry itself and made the assumption that it carried a trailer, and at the very least slowed down.