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A Tragic Loss

teslamotors.com

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Re: A Tragic Loss

#111

Post by gohrt »

TaylorGood wrote: post #14

As most of you have already seen, Autopilot has detected similar situations: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9X-5fKzmy38

> Was travelling a little under 45 mph. There was some rain, but roads were pretty dry. I was watching stopped traffic to my right. > I had an Uber passenger

inattentive faux-professional driver, chatting up a client (gotta get that 5-star rating) instead of watching the toad, driving too fast in dark, wet, complicated conditions (line of stopped cars to the right).

Re: A Tragic Loss

#112

Post by vkou »

curiousgal wrote: post #95
CobrastanJorji wrote: post #81

> It is important to note that Autopilot is...still in a public beta phase... No, it's not important to note that. You should not be able to hide behind the word "Beta" for systems that could kill people. Either you're willing to let people risk their lives on your software or you're not, and you were.

Judging from the description the accident would've happened either ways.

The accident probably wouldn't have happened if the driver was focused on driving the car... As opposed on letting the car drive itself.

When the autopilot acts correctly 99.9% of the time, you'd get incredibly complacent and inattentive. When you don't have an autopilot, you are paying far more attention to the road.

Re: A Tragic Loss

#113

Post by IBM »

Analemma_ wrote: post #40
BinaryIdiot wrote: post #21

I mean I understand Tesla has to make a statement here and I understand they want to ensure everyone that it's not really their fault but to title a post "A Tragic Loss" and then spend the majority of the post discussing all of your car's safety features and how it wasn't your fault just seems tone deaf and distasteful to me. Maybe they had to do it for legal reasons I don't know (I'm certainly not a lawyer) and I'd…

I agree. I'm starting to get really weirded out by Tesla's immediate "not our fault!" blog posts every time a Tesla is involved in any kind of accident. I could see the necessity the first few times back when it was new technology to a lot of people (and Top Gear had it in for them), but with it happening over and over it seems whiny and a bit callous. How long to they plan to keep doing this?

Yeah the thing that rubbed me the wrong way was how they responded to the NYT review about cold weather performance. I've been highly skeptical about Elon and Tesla ever since.

Re: A Tragic Loss

#114

Post by [deleted] »

rspeer wrote: post #28
simonsarris wrote: post #2

> What we know is that the vehicle was on a divided highway with Autopilot engaged when a tractor trailer drove across the highway perpendicular to the Model S. Neither Autopilot nor the driver noticed the white side of the tractor trailer against a brightly lit sky, so the brake was not applied. Tragic no doubt, but I'm relieved that this was not a "Autopilot did something very very wrong" story. Autopilot has the p…

The only situation I can imagine a driver not noticing a huge truck perpendicular to them on the highway, regardless of what color it is, is that they're not paying any attention at all. This peculiar wording is making it sound like the computer made the same mistake as the driver, but it seems much more likely that they made two different mistakes. The computer's mistake was in image recognition, and the person's mi…

[deleted]

Re: A Tragic Loss

#115

Post by United857 »

I couldn't find any other details about the accident, but it seems from the description like it was a side collision at an intersection.

In order for that to happen, it's likely that one of the vehicles had to violate a stop sign or red light.

Note that the Autopilot isn't aware of these things (it won't stop unless a car in front stops). If the Tesla was the vehicle at fault, then most likely it was unawareness of this limitation on the part of the driver (or complacency thinking there wouldn't be any traffic).

Re: A Tragic Loss

#116

Post by dmix »

mevile wrote: post #77
loceng wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel 'A Tragic Loss' sets the tone for the remaining highly technical overview, instead of the technical breakdown seeming tone-deaf, it added tone until getting to the concluding paragraph. Unfortunately, fortunately, Tesla is having to educate people and being very clear to not allow room for panic and unwarranted fear mongering. I would say it is as to the point as it can be, and that it is heartfelt.

In addition it had important information for how other Tesla drivers can use the auto-pilot feature more safely. The article combines condolences and helpful safety information to prevent this kind of thing from happening again. Also, you don't see GM making a blog post every time someone passes away in a car they make.

And regardless this was primarily an after-the-fact technical analysis with relevant information to other Tesla owners, the primary purpose was not a formal announcement of a death. The news typically handles that role.

Re: A Tragic Loss

#117

Post by rsp1984 »

Neither Autopilot nor the driver noticed the white side of the tractor trailer against a brightly lit sky, so the brake was not applied.

It appears to me like this is a case that shows the limitations of stereo vision as the main sensor system guiding the Tesla autopilot. I would even venture to say that it could have possibly been avoided using LiDAR technology. According to various interviews however Elon Musk is not a big fan of LiDAR [1]:

“I don’t think you need LIDAR. I think you can do this all with passive optical and then with maybe one forward RADAR,” Musk said during at a press conference in October. “I think that completely solves it without the use of LIDAR. I’m not a big fan of LIDAR, I don’t think it makes sense in this context.”

[1] http://www.techinsider.io/difference-between-google-and-tesl...

Re: A Tragic Loss

#118

Post by alkonaut »

derekp7 wrote: post #106
georgecmu wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Autopilot engaged when a tractor trailer drove across the highway perpendicular to the Model S. Neither Autopilot nor the driver noticed the white side of the tractor trailer against a brightly lit sky, so the brake was not applied. How is this not an "Autopilot did something very very wrong" story? Tesla autopilot drove the vehicle full-speed into a tractor-trailer, which wasn't registered by its sensor systems. It'…

Replace "autopilot" with "cruise control" -- would you have the same situation? Autopilot is basically advanced cruise control plus steering assist. From what I make of this story, this same accident would have happened with any other car with cruise control turned on.

A lot of modern cars have cruise control with radar for keeping distance to the car in front. Some use the same sensor to auto brake for obstacles at city speeds. I'm sure some will also alert for obstacles at highway speeds, but likely don't auto break then, for safety reasons.

Re: A Tragic Loss

#119

Post by dragontamer »

coralreef wrote: post #52
fixermark wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the fact that they could. Imagine how many press releases there'd be per day if another auto company felt compelled to do one for each accident their cars were involved in.

This release only happened because Tesla knew it would make headlines, and wanted to get out in front before a sensationalized story gets out first. Other auto accidents are non-interesting to the public, but this one involved automated driving.

Ehhh?

The Tesla suspension issue with non-disclosure agreements also made front pages, just a week or two ago.

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/06/11/tesla-revises-nondisclosure-c...

Tesla's blog is their primary marketing / damage control arm. Anything they publish there becomes instant news.

Re: A Tragic Loss

#120

Post by mikeash »

curiousgal wrote: post #82
mikeash wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla's Autopilot uses a radar unit, a front-facing camera, and twelve ultrasonic sensors on the front and back bumper. The ultrasonic sensors are short range and are for detecting adjacent cars and obstacles while parking, the camera is used for detecting lanes, and the camera and radar work together to detect cars. The radar is low to the ground and probably doesn't pick up a trailer that's high off the ground. The…

Would an infrared camera have picked up the trailer?

Good question. I wouldn't be surprised if the existing hardware already incorporated some infrared, but I really have no idea.
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