Condolences to the family. Since he was "a friend to Tesla" there might not be a lawsuit. If every Tesla owner is considered a friend, there might never be a lawsuit. These things are bound to occur. Remember Morrison and "Keep your eyes on the road...and your hands upon the wheel!"
A Tragic Loss
101–110 of 511 posts
Re: A Tragic Loss
#102Tragic. Good that they own it, though I'm not thrilled with this: It is important to note that Tesla disables Autopilot by default and requires explicit acknowledgement that the system is new technology and still in a public beta phase before it can be enabled. When drivers activate Autopilot, the acknowledgment box explains, among other things, that Autopilot “is an assist feature that requires you to keep your hand…
So how would autopilot turn the wheel if the driver is holding it?
I'm guessing that there is not a traditional steering shaft connected to the steering wheel. Instead, opting for a drive by wire system. There's a sensor in the steering wheel that detects user input and then sends a signal to another motor connected to the steering rack which actually turns the wheels. The steering wheel also has a small motor to that accepts input from the steering rack to give feedback to the driver, think "Force Feedback" systems in video game racing wheels. So, Tesla can send steering signals to the steering rack independent of what the driver is doing with the wheel. This system is becoming more common in all vehicles, not just Tesla's cars.
Re: A Tragic Loss
#103Bottom line: Lots of work to do if the car can't see a semi-trailer in front of it. I would be willing to say that it's much more likely that the driver would have noticed in time if Autopilot wasn't on. It's likely that most average drivers will think so too, which pushes the acceptance of this technology somewhere further in the future.
And Tesla's statement does nothing to alleviate these reasonable doubts about putting your life and the lives of your family and friends in the hands of automotive software engineers.
Re: A Tragic Loss
#104Earlier quoted context omitted.
From the information given, we don't know if the truck pulled out right in front of the car giving the driver no time to react, or if the truck pulled out a minute beforehand and the driver was just oblivious. In the absence of any information either way, it's nasty to just assume the driver was inattentive.
I don't think it's nasty, I think it's realistic. I also think that it aligns with the research that shows humans take a significant amount of time to adjust to taking back over control from autopilot. This is one of the primary design considerations behind the Google self driving car having absolutely no steering wheel or brake. The illusion of humans being able to be the fallback when they're not physically capable…
I don't think it's realistic to rampantly speculate about a situation where so little information is available. And I absolutely think it is nasty to talk ill of the dead when there is zero evidence for what's being said.
For all we know the driver had half a second to react before he died. Or maybe he had five minutes. The point is, we don't know. To start from that position and say it's "likely... the driver was screwing around" is pretty crappy.
Re: A Tragic Loss
#105I mean I understand Tesla has to make a statement here and I understand they want to ensure everyone that it's not really their fault but to title a post "A Tragic Loss" and then spend the majority of the post discussing all of your car's safety features and how it wasn't your fault just seems tone deaf and distasteful to me. Maybe they had to do it for legal reasons I don't know (I'm certainly not a lawyer) and I'd…
I was even left with the sense that the tragedy actually felt by the writer was not so much the death of "a friend," as the fact of a blemish on the near-perfect safety record that Tesla has made part of their brand's cachet.
Re: A Tragic Loss
#106> What we know is that the vehicle was on a divided highway with Autopilot engaged when a tractor trailer drove across the highway perpendicular to the Model S. Neither Autopilot nor the driver noticed the white side of the tractor trailer against a brightly lit sky, so the brake was not applied. Tragic no doubt, but I'm relieved that this was not a "Autopilot did something very very wrong" story. Autopilot has the p…
Autopilot engaged when a tractor trailer drove across the highway perpendicular to the Model S. Neither Autopilot nor the driver noticed the white side of the tractor trailer against a brightly lit sky, so the brake was not applied. How is this not an "Autopilot did something very very wrong" story? Tesla autopilot drove the vehicle full-speed into a tractor-trailer, which wasn't registered by its sensor systems. It'…
Replace "autopilot" with "cruise control" -- would you have the same situation? Autopilot is basically advanced cruise control plus steering assist. From what I make of this story, this same accident would have happened with any other car with cruise control turned on.
Re: A Tragic Loss
#107> What we know is that the vehicle was on a divided highway with Autopilot engaged when a tractor trailer drove across the highway perpendicular to the Model S. Neither Autopilot nor the driver noticed the white side of the tractor trailer against a brightly lit sky, so the brake was not applied. Tragic no doubt, but I'm relieved that this was not a "Autopilot did something very very wrong" story. Autopilot has the p…
This seems like a pretty big oversight, large object that car is too tall to clear safely seems like it could cause a lot of problems. Would the car try to make a lane change while next to a trailer?
Unless it's changed recently, drivers have to tell the car specifically to change lanes (using the turn signal) or else it won't do so. And yes, this is the same issue as that other fairly recent incident in which a Model S drove itself into a parked trailer when the owner summoned it (supposedly inadvertently) due to the height of the trailer bed above the ground. Very concerning to me given the prevalence of trucks on the road.
Re: A Tragic Loss
#108> What we know is that the vehicle was on a divided highway with Autopilot engaged when a tractor trailer drove across the highway perpendicular to the Model S. Neither Autopilot nor the driver noticed the white side of the tractor trailer against a brightly lit sky, so the brake was not applied. Tragic no doubt, but I'm relieved that this was not a "Autopilot did something very very wrong" story. Autopilot has the p…
Autopilot engaged when a tractor trailer drove across the highway perpendicular to the Model S. Neither Autopilot nor the driver noticed the white side of the tractor trailer against a brightly lit sky, so the brake was not applied. How is this not an "Autopilot did something very very wrong" story? Tesla autopilot drove the vehicle full-speed into a tractor-trailer, which wasn't registered by its sensor systems. It'…
The autopilot doesn't drive the car, the driver does. The autopilot is a help just like cruise control. Tesla are very clear (apart from the naming of the feature) that the driver must still drive the car.
The autopilot will avoid obstacles it can detect and the driver is expected to avoid others (since he has eyes on the wheel and eyes on the road the whole time).
I think they misleading thing about Teslas Autopilot I its current state is that they call it "Autopilot" while other manufacturers call this kind of assist features e.g "Lane Assist".
A distance-sensing cruise control can't be trusted not to crash into the back of the vehicle in front either, not least because it can't be sure it can "see" it. I suspect motorcycles and other small vehicles may fool radars just like this case seems to have been about contrast and colors in a camera sensor.
Re: A Tragic Loss
#109I don't feel like Autopilot will ever be able to take over 100% of the time - there are so many corner cases, so many unexpected/illegal maneuvers etc. to deal with that at least in the initial stages it would be wise to accept those limitations and not market it as Autopilot - instead make it DriverAssist or something.
It should really only take over in situations the driver failed to handle - asleep at wheel causing car to shift lanes when it is not safe - loud buzzer and lane correction to stay in the lane, not seeing object in the front - auto brake with buzz etc. Then it would be whole different story if it failed - the mistake was driver's to begin with even if driver assist could not correct it. And it will still save a lot of lives no doubt.
The whole idea that complex technology like this can guarantee 100% safe and reliable outcome 100% of the times is I think one hell of a over promise that will continue to cause people to become even more unaware and distracted than your usual car driver already is. And as this shows it will not always end well.
Edit: A Volvo Engineer had similar opinion - From The Verge - "Some autonomous driving experts have criticized Tesla for introducing the Autopilot feature, with a Volvo engineer saying the system "gives you the impression that it's doing more than it is.". That's exactly right.
Re: A Tragic Loss
#110[deleted]