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Universal Basic Income – Poll Results from IGM Economic Experts Panel

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Re: Universal Basic Income – Poll Results from IGM Economic Experts Panel

#31

Post by natrius »

aresant wrote: post #17

"It might also shift the norm whether to work. Work = being part of society " - Markus Brunnermeier(1) I love how simply Markus arrived at the fundamental political issue with Basic Income in the USA: American culture and society is a "work culture". If you're not working you're not part of society. That's a very plain and powerful statement that is central to many of the gut-reaction trump-esque disparaging argument…

Agreed. While I think a basic income is a good idea, the people I think it will make better off don't actually want it. They want jobs. Perhaps we should be considering a new Works Progress Administration instead.

Re: Universal Basic Income – Poll Results from IGM Economic Experts Panel

#32

Post by roymurdock »

Cristopher Udry, Yale: The simplicity is attractive, but deceptive. Coupled with universal health care & tax reform it could work. but we are far from that.

The key is tax reform. UBI is just an interesting and controversial new name for a more boring (and conventional) idea: wealth redistribution through tax reform.

Nobody wants to talk about tax reform because it's boring, opaque, and gridlocked at a political level, whereas anyone can have an opinion on the new hot topic of UBI. Hopefully UBI will bring about a fruitful discussion of more fundamental issues, such as tax reform, in the near future.

Re: Universal Basic Income – Poll Results from IGM Economic Experts Panel

#33

Post by vkou »

jcizzle wrote: post #19
IanCal wrote: post #12

> Work = being part of society That's a sad state of affairs.

Society is a group of people whose collaborative efforts are able to accomplish more than any one individual and more than simply a sum of individuals. That means 'work', which is another word for 'doing something for someone else'. It is selfish to believe that one can belong to a group of people and obtain the benefits without contributing to it.

A lot of work does little to benefit society. It is a collaborative effort to enrich your employer.

Re: Universal Basic Income – Poll Results from IGM Economic Experts Panel

#34

Post by mason240 »

jaimeyap wrote: post #2

The formulation of the question frames Social Security and Medicare as being mutually exclusive with a UBI. UBI ought to replace things like food stamps and welfare. Not healthcare or retirement benefits! I am a huge fan of UBI, and I would have voted "disagree" the way that question was framed. A better formulation would be to frame UBI as an "automation dividend". Where we dip into increased efficiencies produced b…

>UBI ought to replace things like food stamps and welfare. Not healthcare or retirement benefits!

Why would you receive extra retirement payments on top of UBI? That would defeat the entire purpose of UBI.

Re: Universal Basic Income – Poll Results from IGM Economic Experts Panel

#35

Post by abannin »

The data is misleading; many of comments reject the context of the question not UBI itself. Take Thaler's response: "This is a dumb question. We are not going to eliminate Social Security and Medicare etc." The survey is not an expert review of UBI, but rather a specific implementation of UBI.

Re: Universal Basic Income – Poll Results from IGM Economic Experts Panel

#36

Post by malka »

natrius wrote: post #31
aresant wrote: post #17

"It might also shift the norm whether to work. Work = being part of society " - Markus Brunnermeier(1) I love how simply Markus arrived at the fundamental political issue with Basic Income in the USA: American culture and society is a "work culture". If you're not working you're not part of society. That's a very plain and powerful statement that is central to many of the gut-reaction trump-esque disparaging argument…

Agreed. While I think a basic income is a good idea, the people I think it will make better off don't actually want it. They want jobs. Perhaps we should be considering a new Works Progress Administration instead.

Let's bury lots of 100 USD bills and give people a shovel.

Re: Universal Basic Income – Poll Results from IGM Economic Experts Panel

#37

Post by maxerickson »

wang_li wrote: post #23
Retric wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A flater tax rate would make up a large chunk of the difference. Basicly, at 50k you still get UBI, but it's offset by new taxes to leave your after tax income more or less the same. At 25k, you pay a lot more in taxes, but get a UBI for a net gain. At 0k you just get UBI, not food stamps ect. There would probably be a net cost increase, but as SS counts as regular income it's not going to be huge for most retires. A…

I thought the U stood for universal. If you take it back in new taxes, it's just a transfer program from productive to non-productive.

It often stands for unconditional.

Re: Universal Basic Income – Poll Results from IGM Economic Experts Panel

#38

Post by cmdrfred »

vkou wrote: post #29
aresant wrote: post #17

"It might also shift the norm whether to work. Work = being part of society " - Markus Brunnermeier(1) I love how simply Markus arrived at the fundamental political issue with Basic Income in the USA: American culture and society is a "work culture". If you're not working you're not part of society. That's a very plain and powerful statement that is central to many of the gut-reaction trump-esque disparaging argument…

Unless you're rich. If you're rich, and not working, your opinions are valued and respected.

You aren't working, you're even better. You're a "job creator".

Re: Universal Basic Income – Poll Results from IGM Economic Experts Panel

#39

Post by rjprins »

apalmer wrote: post #21
rubidium wrote: post #7

I don't know a better way to put this. The whole UBI idea that shows up here a lot (e.g. https://stratechery.com/2016/the-brexit-possibility/ ) is just naive. And now we have a nice poll of the experts to justify that judgement. UBI of $13k has the same support from experts as does denying climate change.

UBI, is one of those things I just cannot logically compute. I am completely in support of the end goals of UBI. Just cannot fathom how UBI can even theoretically works. It seems to ignore Economics, Game Theory, and Human Nature. I just dont understand how it could rationally be viewed as a workable solution.

Imagine you are part of tribe, would you share food, care, and help in general with your fellow tribesmen and women?

Now imagine the tribe is really big and named the USA.

Human nature is both social and competitive. UBI is a social gesture, it doesn't take away or prevent competitiveness.

Re: Universal Basic Income – Poll Results from IGM Economic Experts Panel

#40

Post by malka »

mason240 wrote: post #34
jaimeyap wrote: post #2

The formulation of the question frames Social Security and Medicare as being mutually exclusive with a UBI. UBI ought to replace things like food stamps and welfare. Not healthcare or retirement benefits! I am a huge fan of UBI, and I would have voted "disagree" the way that question was framed. A better formulation would be to frame UBI as an "automation dividend". Where we dip into increased efficiencies produced b…

>UBI ought to replace things like food stamps and welfare. Not healthcare or retirement benefits! Why would you receive extra retirement payments on top of UBI? That would defeat the entire purpose of UBI.

healthcare is not an extra payment though. I think it is important to have a universal healthcare even with UBI.
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