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The warp drive will have to wait

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Re: The warp drive will have to wait

#51

Post by cgriswald »

jdmichal wrote: post #46
davesque wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like you're suggesting that the universe springs forth from scientific theory and not the other way around.

I'm not quite sure what you're suggesting. The universe and the science that describe it are the same thing. Much as I am the same thing as the chemicals and reactions that describe me. However, our understanding of the science may be flawed, and perhaps that's what you're really meaning to say.

That seems a bit like saying a CAD file describing a roller coaster is the roller coaster.

We have a model of our perception of the universe

Re: The warp drive will have to wait

#53

Post by davesque »

jdmichal wrote: post #46
davesque wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like you're suggesting that the universe springs forth from scientific theory and not the other way around.

I'm not quite sure what you're suggesting. The universe and the science that describe it are the same thing. Much as I am the same thing as the chemicals and reactions that describe me. However, our understanding of the science may be flawed, and perhaps that's what you're really meaning to say.

I'm confused. Was your response to me or Certhas?

If it was to me, I don't agree. Science is a collection of human ideas that exist in the minds of humans. As another commenter said, it's our model of the universe. There is no difference between science and our understanding of science unless you're talking about differences in understanding between individual people.

Re: The warp drive will have to wait

#54

Post by raverbashing »

arijun wrote: post #44

I believed in the EM drive in the same way I occasionally buy lottery tickets: there's no way I could win, but wouldn't it be _so cool_ if I did?

Well, the probability is non-zero. And people win.

Sure, it is extremely small. But even that is different from zero.

Re: The warp drive will have to wait

#55

Post by raverbashing »

leecarraher wrote: post #38

Why not run the setup without the cavity, or replace the magnetron with a big ass resistor, and see if you still get deflection. I suspect this is the beginning of a refutation, but it feels like there's a carrot still dangling.

Yeah, this seems an easier way to test it

Re: The warp drive will have to wait

#57

Post by danharaj »

cousin_it wrote: post #56

Come on folks. John Baez has dismissed it [1]. For those who don't know who John Baez is, it's as if Terry Tao dismissed your math homework. For those who don't know who Terry Tao is... whatever. Just stop. [1] https://plus.google.com/app/basic/stream/z13gzfm4xt2tuxehl04...

John Baez and Terence Tao are as nice as they are smart and i think you're doing them a disservice by using them to be condescending.

Re: The warp drive will have to wait

#58

Post by Roboprog »

HCIdivision17 wrote: post #30
Certhas wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it's free energy or free momentum, using only physics that has been perfectly described in hundreds of millions of contexts and experiments, for one and a half centuries, using mathematics that don't allow for either, you can rule out this alternative. The likelihood that free momentum and free energy are possible is indistinguishable from 0. They are empirically impossible in the strongest reasonable sense the wo…

The critical detail here is that this is neither free energy nor free momentum in this setup. Energy is pumped in, and some momentum is generated - that's incredibly boring and not at all something that should raise any skepticism. The question of what in the hell was being pushed against to convert that energy to momentum, on the other hand, is a really interesting question, but not one to deeply pursue until we're…

Sure, something that worked like a Bussard ramjet, but without necessarily funneling all the particles through the craft itself, would still be useful. Grab all the hydrogen (and any bonus dust) within a few kiloclicks and throw it backwards at relativistic speed.

Well, if one know how to create such an effect...

Re: The warp drive will have to wait

#59

Post by aminorex »

api wrote: post #45
ucaetano wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds a bit like Fermi's quote: "If the result confirms the hypothesis, then you've made a measurement. If the result is contrary to the hypothesis, then you've made a discovery."

I remember that quote too, and the key take aways always seemed like: in science you always learn something . Taking the EMDrive as an example -- we have measurements that contradict current theory, so we are either going to discover new physics or we are going to learn something about the art of making very precise measurements of force in complex mechanical systems. In no case do we learn nothing.

A third option, of equal merit: We may learn to apply existing theory more correctly and more adequately in a novel configuration.

Re: The warp drive will have to wait

#60

Post by aminorex »

raverbashing wrote: post #54
arijun wrote: post #44

I believed in the EM drive in the same way I occasionally buy lottery tickets: there's no way I could win, but wouldn't it be _so cool_ if I did?

Well, the probability is non-zero. And people win. Sure, it is extremely small . But even that is different from zero.

Reward is finite. Risk is infinitesimal. No-brainer.
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