How Amazon Triggered a Robot Arms Race • Hacker News Board

Re: How Amazon Triggered a Robot Arms Race

#21

Post by sgift » Thu, Jun 30, 2016, 6:03 AM UTC

tuna-piano wrote: post #10

ethbro wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that the point of UBI? Getting us past the local maxima of "this job is soul-crushing and a waste of a person's intelligence, but economics make it cheaper to use a body than a robot"?

I know many college graduates in their mid/late twenties doing various "knowledge" jobs. Many of them consider their jobs soul crushing. Most people don't like their work. Most people don't like waking up on someone else's schedule and do work that their told to do. That's why businesses pay them, after all.

And I always thought businesses pay you because you do something which they value, and that this is sometimes soul crushing is just a coincidence.

Re: How Amazon Triggered a Robot Arms Race

#22

Post by taneq » Thu, Jun 30, 2016, 6:14 AM UTC

Aelinsaar wrote: post #3

Interesting. I wonder if this system and that "Hover" technology would be a good fit? A warehouse seems like one of the good places to line the floor with metal and clear the people out.

You mean the electromagnetic 'hoverboard' thing? This is probably the best bet for that tech to become relevant, but it's hard to see how it'd be more efficient than just using air cushions, which are an established way of moving heavy things around on smooth floors (let alone wheels).

Re: How Amazon Triggered a Robot Arms Race

#23

Post by desdiv » Thu, Jun 30, 2016, 7:01 AM UTC

iandanforth wrote: post #14

ChuckMcM wrote: post #8

I was reminded of how Dell originally pioneered extreme operational efficiency as the tool which made them hard to beat. I also particularly like the warehouse robotics application, it is a good mix of being able to make some adaptations in the environment to mitigate some of the more serious robotics challenges and yet able to effectively evaluate the net value to the business with and without. Just wish I'd started…

Not too late to join one! We (Fetch Robotics) are hiring for many roles!

FYI the link on your profile, http://fetchrobotics.com/?page_id=30, is bouncing to an outdated page: http://fetchrobotics.com/careers-old.

Re: How Amazon Triggered a Robot Arms Race

#24

Post by kristofferR » Thu, Jun 30, 2016, 7:40 AM UTC

Komplett.no, which aims to become the Amazon of Norway (the real Amazon doesn't care about Norway), has a really cool automated warehouse (AutoStore) which seems even more advanced than Amazons:

http://autostoresystem.com/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_O0UKARdLDc (360° video)

http://www.tu.no/artikler/unik-video-bli-med-inn-i-kompletts...

The packages still need to be packaged by hand though, but it seems like it would be easier to automate that for the AutoStore system since each product has its own box as opposed to Amazons Kiva system where multiple products are placed on the same shelf.

Re: How Amazon Triggered a Robot Arms Race

#25

Post by kuschku » Thu, Jun 30, 2016, 7:44 AM UTC

Animats wrote: post #18

I'd wondered how Kiva's old customers were doing. Now we know. There really isn't a direct replacement for Kiva robots from another vendor. The great thing about Kiva robots is that they're quite simple and robust mechanically. They're a battery, motors, wheels, and a lift mechanism. They're completely interchangeable, and having one fail isn't a big deal. Maintenance is replacing batteries, motors, wheels, and maybe…

And this is horrible for the market.

A company gaining a huge advantage by getting a total monopoly over another market, which they can enforce due to having patents.

That’s not what patents were supposed to create, and what Antitrust regulations were supposed to prevent.

If this is the future, it’s quite a dystopia: Monopolies everywhere.

Sure, I get that the Silicon Valley business model is to destroy regulation, get a monopoly (ideally in a new market niche, but destroying existing competition with illegal predatory pricing is also common), and then to abuse the monopoly, but is no one thinking that for the average consumer a free, competitive market might be better?

Re: How Amazon Triggered a Robot Arms Race

#26

Post by ZeroGravitas » Thu, Jun 30, 2016, 7:58 AM UTC

kuschku wrote: post #25

Animats wrote: post #18

I'd wondered how Kiva's old customers were doing. Now we know. There really isn't a direct replacement for Kiva robots from another vendor. The great thing about Kiva robots is that they're quite simple and robust mechanically. They're a battery, motors, wheels, and a lift mechanism. They're completely interchangeable, and having one fail isn't a big deal. Maintenance is replacing batteries, motors, wheels, and maybe…

And this is horrible for the market. A company gaining a huge advantage by getting a total monopoly over another market, which they can enforce due to having patents. That’s not what patents were supposed to create, and what Antitrust regulations were supposed to prevent. If this is the future, it’s quite a dystopia: Monopolies everywhere. Sure, I get that the Silicon Valley business model is to destroy regulation, g…

This is my theory as to why Europe can't compete with silicon valley. It turns out, what they're "competing" on is willingness to turn a blind eye to monopolies and their negative economic effects.

Re: How Amazon Triggered a Robot Arms Race

#27

Post by forrestthewoods » Thu, Jun 30, 2016, 8:03 AM UTC

kuschku wrote: post #25

Animats wrote: post #18

I'd wondered how Kiva's old customers were doing. Now we know. There really isn't a direct replacement for Kiva robots from another vendor. The great thing about Kiva robots is that they're quite simple and robust mechanically. They're a battery, motors, wheels, and a lift mechanism. They're completely interchangeable, and having one fail isn't a big deal. Maintenance is replacing batteries, motors, wheels, and maybe…

And this is horrible for the market. A company gaining a huge advantage by getting a total monopoly over another market, which they can enforce due to having patents. That’s not what patents were supposed to create, and what Antitrust regulations were supposed to prevent. If this is the future, it’s quite a dystopia: Monopolies everywhere. Sure, I get that the Silicon Valley business model is to destroy regulation, g…

Ehhh Kiva being the only company isn't a healthy market. Even if they're selling to everyone.

To be honest Amazon buying Kiva is probably the best thing that could happen. They broadcast to the world that such a company is worth almost a billion dollars. Now the market is filling with competitors and investment. That's exactly what you want.

Re: How Amazon Triggered a Robot Arms Race

#28

Post by zorked » Thu, Jun 30, 2016, 8:06 AM UTC

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #26

kuschku wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And this is horrible for the market. A company gaining a huge advantage by getting a total monopoly over another market, which they can enforce due to having patents. That’s not what patents were supposed to create, and what Antitrust regulations were supposed to prevent. If this is the future, it’s quite a dystopia: Monopolies everywhere. Sure, I get that the Silicon Valley business model is to destroy regulation, g…

This is my theory as to why Europe can't compete with silicon valley. It turns out, what they're "competing" on is willingness to turn a blind eye to monopolies and their negative economic effects.

Are these effects really negative then?

Re: How Amazon Triggered a Robot Arms Race

#29

Post by lmm » Thu, Jun 30, 2016, 8:26 AM UTC

zorked wrote: post #28

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is my theory as to why Europe can't compete with silicon valley. It turns out, what they're "competing" on is willingness to turn a blind eye to monopolies and their negative economic effects.

Are these effects really negative then?

For a fixed level of technology, a competitive industry is better for customers than a monopoly industry. But an innovative monopoly may be better than a stagnant competitive industry, and the prospect of monopoly rents encourages innovation. The patent system is supposed to be the compromise here: if you innovate you get 20 years of monopoly, after that your innovation is commoditised.

Re: How Amazon Triggered a Robot Arms Race

#30

Post by lmm » Thu, Jun 30, 2016, 8:30 AM UTC

timv wrote: post #17

peterkshultz wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair. But a soul-crushing job is better than no job, and the question remains as to whether or not mobility into a job of equal requisite skill exists.

> a soul-crushing job is better than no job Really? Do you mean: "Being paid to do soul-crushing work is better than not being paid" ? Or: "Doing soul-crushing work is better than having nothing to do" ? The first is an issue of income and the distribution of product (in the GDP sense of product). There is no axiomatic rule that says "you have to have a job to get paid", it's just how our current economy operates. If…

> Or: "Doing soul-crushing work is better than having nothing to do" ?

Are we sure this isn't true? Are people who don't have to work (e.g. those on permanent disability in the US) more or less happy than comparable people in dead-end soulless jobs?