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There Is No Handbook for Being a Writer

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Re: There Is No Handbook for Being a Writer

#71

Post by hockeybias »

adregan wrote: post #65
AndreyErmakov wrote: post #38

It's interesting that the author pursued a degree in literature and that's what ultimately pushed her away from that career path. It seems to be a common theme where a formal education in creative arts makes people want to do something else in life, anything else. I've had acquaintances with a musical background and eventually they went to do something else, including IT. From what an old buddy told me once, most gra…

> It's interesting that the author pursued a degree in literature and that's what ultimately pushed her away from that career path. It seems to be a common theme where a formal education in creative arts makes people want to do something else in life, anything else. I can only speak for myself, but I have a MA in literature (creative writing and poetry specifically) and am now a developer. The career path for that ty…

I was a Fine Arts major and am now going on 25 years of being a software developer. I feel best when I am making something. I like the creative process a great deal!

Re: There Is No Handbook for Being a Writer

#72

Post by AndreyErmakov »

gnaritas wrote: post #34
Mendenhall wrote: post #30

Him sitting next to author reminded me how I always think you are a writer when you pay your bills through writing, same with art etc. I find so many that say they are an "artist" yet thats not how they pay their bills. Sure you may make fantastic art but you are not an artist. You never here someone say I am a basketball player just because they play basketball as a hobby. Doing something that pays your bills is tot…

Not everyone defines themselves by what pays the bills, plenty of artists do menial jobs to make ends meet. How they pay their bills is a bad measure of who/what they are, you shouldn't reject someone's self definition because you want to judge them by how they make money. You are not your job.

>> You are not your job.

Very true. I hold the same liberal view as to what people truly are.

An interesting idea just struck me. If a seasoned software developer quits his full-time job to work on a startup of his dream, while taking a part time job at a bar to be able to pay his bills, who is he then? Is he no longer a professional software engineer? Is he now a bar tender? An entrepreneur? What is he truly then during this period?

By the same token, if say an economist has been getting frustrated at his job and starts learning web programming, building simple personal sites for himself and friends, is it insufficient to call him a programmer, even if we would all agree he is only a junior one?

Where do we draw a line?

If someone is serious about a new vocation and invests a lot of time and energy into mastering it, then by all rights he's already in part what he aspires to become.

Re: There Is No Handbook for Being a Writer

#73

Post by FuNe »

rewrew wrote: post #31
m52go wrote: post #9

But there is a game! It's called Write On Par. It teaches concise writing, playfully. Because no writer has the patience to sit through a grammar class...and no reader wants to read wordy, confusing writing no matter what the topic. http://writeonpar.com /shameless plug Beautiful article though. I've met a couple recently-turned full-time authors and have nothing but the utmost respect and admiration for the author/a…

Writing is a craft, and it's a freaking hard one that takes combining a lot of skills plus a lot of discipline and hard work. If you don't have the patience to sit through something as simple as as a semester-long grammar class at your local community college as one aspect of learning the fundamentals you need to succeed, then most likely writing isn't the career path for you.

Hm, dunno. I'd say writing is about having something to say. Especially something other people want or (more importantly) need to read. I don't think that Charles Bukowski was particularly disciplined or educated for example.

Re: There Is No Handbook for Being a Writer

#74

Post by weeksie »

toolslive wrote: post #58
greenspot wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but you're missing out on an incredible body of thoughts and ideas that might expand your vision borders. Have to disagree here. Yes there is a lot of good stuff especially written in the past but looking at today I see high caliber English writers and books in every category I do not see in that quality and quantity in any other language. Ok I do not know how it's about Chinese but that's my perception regarding o…

Maybe you're reading in the wrong language. Try Spanish.

Ah g-d. Ficciones, 100 Years. Sigh. What a sad thing to miss out on those. (at the very least)

Re: There Is No Handbook for Being a Writer

#75

Post by lgieron »

FuNe wrote: post #73
rewrew wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Writing is a craft, and it's a freaking hard one that takes combining a lot of skills plus a lot of discipline and hard work. If you don't have the patience to sit through something as simple as as a semester-long grammar class at your local community college as one aspect of learning the fundamentals you need to succeed, then most likely writing isn't the career path for you.

Hm, dunno. I'd say writing is about having something to say. Especially something other people want or (more importantly) need to read. I don't think that Charles Bukowski was particularly disciplined or educated for example.

He was extremely disciplined - he made himself write every day after his grueling day job, for years (decades?), until he finally started getting some traction.

Re: There Is No Handbook for Being a Writer

#76

Post by calebm »

AndreyErmakov wrote: post #38

It's interesting that the author pursued a degree in literature and that's what ultimately pushed her away from that career path. It seems to be a common theme where a formal education in creative arts makes people want to do something else in life, anything else. I've had acquaintances with a musical background and eventually they went to do something else, including IT. From what an old buddy told me once, most gra…

I always hated literature and writing classes, because it felt wrong to force people to do things which are meant to be pleasurable. At the time, I thought the only point of such classes was so that students could pretentiously be considered "cultured".

Finally, after years, I'm finally able to enjoy literature and writing. I had similar experiences with math.

Re: There Is No Handbook for Being a Writer

#77

Post by trobertson »

FuNe wrote: post #73
rewrew wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Writing is a craft, and it's a freaking hard one that takes combining a lot of skills plus a lot of discipline and hard work. If you don't have the patience to sit through something as simple as as a semester-long grammar class at your local community college as one aspect of learning the fundamentals you need to succeed, then most likely writing isn't the career path for you.

Hm, dunno. I'd say writing is about having something to say. Especially something other people want or (more importantly) need to read. I don't think that Charles Bukowski was particularly disciplined or educated for example.

Everyone has something to say. The achievement of writers is being able to suitably express their thoughts to their audience.

Regarding Bukowski, you should check out his Wikipedia page. I'll snip some highlights, and draw some conclusions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Bukowski

> poet, novelist, and short story writer

> Bukowski wrote thousands of poems, hundreds of short stories and six novels, eventually publishing over 60 books

You don't write thousands of poems without understanding language. He may not have had a complete collegiate education, but you can be sure he ended up studying language on his own.

Re: There Is No Handbook for Being a Writer

#78

Post by michaelbuddy »

I would say most jobs or careers have no handbook. The ones that SEEM to have handbook are the same jobs where they'll tell you that the handbook means little in the real world. Think policing, firefighting, paramedic. Jobs with certifications such as medicine or specific highly regulated trades such as electrician, HVAC. These jobs have large ramping up periods, apprenticeships because the 'handbook' is guided experience.

What I don't understand is did the author think that most people new to writing expected it to be more straightforward? Because I would have thought people like writing because the career is what you make of it, where you hustle and for what.

Re: There Is No Handbook for Being a Writer

#79

Post by kafkaesque »

AndreyErmakov wrote: post #38

It's interesting that the author pursued a degree in literature and that's what ultimately pushed her away from that career path. It seems to be a common theme where a formal education in creative arts makes people want to do something else in life, anything else. I've had acquaintances with a musical background and eventually they went to do something else, including IT. From what an old buddy told me once, most gra…

I majored in literature and minored in philosophy by taking an interdisciplinary programme.

As you suggest, the ideal path is majoring in something that will get you a job that pays decent to handsomely; and minor in something that will feed your soul. It sounds trite, but it is the best option and one few take from the people I've encountered.

I don't mean to burst your bubble but you might be romanticising a liberal arts education. It saddens me to say but I know UC Berkeley lit grads who still write like high-schoolers.

Literature doesn't teach you to write. Creative writing doesn't teach you to think. Forget about journalism. University writing style guides don't keep up with modern society. You have to tailor your liberal arts experience. Classical education taught the trivium to students at an early age so they can get a head start on teaching them how to think.

Luckily computer science teaches logic indirectly, but philosophically, it is only one type of logic. Writing involves many types of logic. But logic alone is not good writing. That depends on your audience and purpose. Good writing sometimes requires writing grammatically incorrect sentences. Good writing mirrors the natural flow of your reader's language, including phraseology, diction, and cause and effect. It has to jibe with them. But again, there are different purposes for a given writing composition.

When I got my first writing job, I was naively proud to say I was a writer. Now I'm embarrassed by it and just say what field or department I work in.

Re: There Is No Handbook for Being a Writer

#80

Post by sanoli »

greenspot wrote: post #42
AndreyErmakov wrote: post #38

It's interesting that the author pursued a degree in literature and that's what ultimately pushed her away from that career path. It seems to be a common theme where a formal education in creative arts makes people want to do something else in life, anything else. I've had acquaintances with a musical background and eventually they went to do something else, including IT. From what an old buddy told me once, most gra…

> but you're missing out on an incredible body of thoughts and ideas that might expand your vision borders. Have to disagree here. Yes there is a lot of good stuff especially written in the past but looking at today I see high caliber English writers and books in every category I do not see in that quality and quantity in any other language. Ok I do not know how it's about Chinese but that's my perception regarding o…

If you're talking about contemporary literature, then maybe, as I wouldn't know much about recent stuff. If not, then you're... I don't even know what to call it... to dismiss the french, russian, spanish, italian classics... wow.
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