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Hillary Clinton Announces Tech Plan

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Re: Hillary Clinton Announces Tech Plan

#51

Post by davidw »

throwawaysocks wrote: post #40
ak217 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a pretty myopic thing to say. One of the biggest issues for the US higher ed system is that foreign students who receive an education here often can't stay or have to face ridiculous hurdles. In many thousands of cases, you are also wrong about buying the degree: research grants to universities fund those students' tuition and stipends, in exchange for good work. Address the inflation of university budgets at…

> In many thousands of cases, you are also wrong about buying the degree: research grants to universities fund those students' tuition and stipends, in exchange for good work. I think your parent was primarily referring to masters programs, not phd programs. FWIW I am pro-immigration in general, but I do worry about expensive diploma mill masters programs becoming a way for wealthy immigrants to buy preferential trea…

> FWIW I am pro-immigration in general, but I do worry about expensive diploma mill masters programs becoming a way for wealthy immigrants to buy preferential treatment. It's a legitimate concern with any "masters == green card" scheme.

Of course the answer to that is probably to open things up more in general, so you're not creating these perverse incentives and special channels, but it's difficult to do that. People get incensed because they worked so hard to be born in the US and consequently don't think others should have the same opportunities.

http://johnhcochrane.blogspot.com/2014/06/the-optimal-number...

Re: Hillary Clinton Announces Tech Plan

#53

Post by basch »

basch wrote: post #31

2 things to remember. 1) "Fix Copyright" probably means TPP 2) Hillary uses a blackberry because she doesnt know how to use a computer http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/27/us/politics/hillary-clinto... nor does she password protect her own computer http://dailycaller.com/2016/05/26/shocking-deposition-hillar...

well im getting downvoted for this, BUT my point was

Hillary clearly didnt write this laundry list, it seems like almost a time cube esque wishlist of every tech initiative possible. It just comes off as political word salad, so different news aggregators can bite quote it, like throwing paint at the wall.

"Hillary is committed to increasing the security of our government networks, making it harder for hackers to gain unauthorized access."

Really?

Re: Hillary Clinton Announces Tech Plan

#54

Post by krapp »

MrZongle2 wrote: post #8

I realize that Clinton -- like any candidate -- has a platoon of advisers for a wide variety of topics, and it is these people (rather than the candidate) who comes up with the proposed policy. But I can't help but immediately think that this was the candidate who disregarded the sound advice of the IT and security professionals in the State Department and had an entirely different bunch of people set up a faulty alt…

>But I can't help but immediately think that this was the candidate who disregarded the sound advice of the IT and security professionals in the State Department and had an entirely different bunch of people set up a faulty alternative email service for her own convenience.

As opposed to Donald Trump, who is known for his IT security savvy and who would obviously never bend or break the rules for his personal benefit...

Re: Hillary Clinton Announces Tech Plan

#55

Post by davidw »

seeingfurther wrote: post #6
rayiner wrote: post #2

> It proposes investments in computer science and engineering education . . . and attaching a green card to the diplomas of foreign-born students earning STEM degrees. These sound good in theory, but in effect they're an industry-specific labor subsidy. When the government "invests" in STEM education, what happens is that the companies that need to hire engineers save money both as a result of reduced training costs…

Isn't that a good thing? What would be some negative consequences?

It's government trying to pick winners, which rarely works out that well. I think government should stick to basics like infrastructure, education and making sure everyone has decent health care; that kind of thing that companies are less suited for.

Re: Hillary Clinton Announces Tech Plan

#56

Post by steego »

jordanb wrote: post #9

> attaching a green card to the diplomas of foreign-born students earning STEM degrees. HAH! I knew this was going to be in there. Of course it's a gigantic bailout to the universities. STEM grad programs are already full of foreign nationals trying to get a slot in the advanced degree H1-B track. This would absolutely turbocharge that: buy a degree from whatever fourth rate American university for $xxx,xxx and value…

I love the idea of making it easy for highly skilled foreigners to job shop because it's in my interest that they are paid competitively. It also imports people who create value and bring in additional tax revenue.

I'm hesitant about the idea of merely tying green cards to STEM degrees because it does seem like the sort of incentive to yield unintended consequences. What sort of protections will there be to make sure universities don't water down their STEM programs?

However, calling this a gigantic bailout to universities is an obtuse way to characterize it. A bailout is when you provide financial assistance to a failed institution. That's not what's happening here. This is a program that would attach new value to a STEM degree from a US university. Universities would certainly experience a windfall as they will be able to charge a premium for STEM programs, but don't confuse windfalls with bailouts.

Re: Hillary Clinton Announces Tech Plan

#57

Post by kylestlb »

GrumpyYoungMan wrote: post #17
rayiner wrote: post #2

> It proposes investments in computer science and engineering education . . . and attaching a green card to the diplomas of foreign-born students earning STEM degrees. These sound good in theory, but in effect they're an industry-specific labor subsidy. When the government "invests" in STEM education, what happens is that the companies that need to hire engineers save money both as a result of reduced training costs…

So? An increase in citizens trained in a highly intellectually demanding field and encouraging immigration of some of the best and brightest of other nations makes it more than worthwhile to pursue.

If this plan goes thru, maybe a university should undertake some sort of advanced accreditation process to be able to award green cards. I would hazard a guess that some universities (state unis?) aren't necessarily attracting the best and brightest. Anecdotal, but I took a few masters CS courses at an average state uni, and the foreign students had a similar academic rigor and aptitude as the general uni population for the most part, displayed through mean test and assignment scores.

I could be totally wrong but it might be dangerous to assume we are attracting only the best and brightest, no? Seems like we are attracting anyone on the spectrum who can dole out some money to a university and get a stem degree.

Re: Hillary Clinton Announces Tech Plan

#58

Post by throwawaysocks »

jordanb wrote: post #50
throwawaysocks wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In many thousands of cases, you are also wrong about buying the degree: research grants to universities fund those students' tuition and stipends, in exchange for good work. I think your parent was primarily referring to masters programs, not phd programs. FWIW I am pro-immigration in general, but I do worry about expensive diploma mill masters programs becoming a way for wealthy immigrants to buy preferential trea…

Because we have such a serious of shortage of people with PHDs? https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-B9Hv9N6bi1w/V2WBuW96arI/AAAAAAAAE...

No, because as a nation we are actively investing in each funded Ph.D. we train.

If we have too many PhD's then we should decrease the number of PhD's the federal government funds. But as my original parent observed, paying hundreds of thousands to train someone just to kick them out of the country is silly.

(Also, I think downward pressure on PhD salaries has very little to do with over-supply, but that's for another article.)

Re: Hillary Clinton Announces Tech Plan

#60

Post by drabiega »

Spooky23 wrote: post #42
thecolorblue wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...faulty alternative email service... Do you have a source for this? It was my impression that nothing was out of the ordinary about her email server, and the rules around it were vague.

Do some Googling. Anyone who isn't Hillary Clinton would be in prison right now for doing what she did.

I'm not a particularly big fan of Hilary, but as far as I'm aware, this used to be pretty common among members of congress and senators, so you might have to broaden your criteria a bit.
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