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Investing Returns on the S&P500

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Re: Investing Returns on the S&P500

#31
post #11

Does the stock data used suffer from Surviver bias? That is a free download of historical data that lacks failing, delisted companies of the past.

Yes sometimes companies are delisted from the S&P500, but if you invest in an S&P500 index fund, then your investment is also automatically adjusted to remove that company.

Which makes me think: with index funds becoming more and more popular, should we see bigger and bigger crashes of stocks when they are removed from an index?

Re: Investing Returns on the S&P500

#32
The stock market isn't some immutable thing. It's the product of economic and social forces, the share of income given to capital and labor, international politics, etc. Basically stocks are a convenience for rentiers that the little people are allowed to access. There's no reason to expect the social forces that underly market returns will deliver the same returns in the future.

Re: Investing Returns on the S&P500

#33

It's funny that this is so non-intuitive. My wife continues to try to "time the market" despite me telling her that it's pointless over such a long time horizon. Maybe this will help convince her.

timing the market can be done any number of ways -- productively. we're short term beasts not programmed to be patient (schiller pe, deviations from averages, down x%).

Re: Investing Returns on the S&P500

#34
I am not a financial advisor and this is not financial advice!

Robinhood seems like an OK way to keep a free portfolio of ETFs approximating a Vanguard all-in-one fund.

My super-unscientific portfolio is loosely based on Vanguard's LifeStrategy Growth & Moderate Growth funds with a sliver of MGK that seemed to both boost returns and moderate declines.

A $5k portfolio would be 6 MGK (10%), 19 VTI (40%), 23 VXUS (20%), 12 BND (20%), 9 BNDX (10%).

From what I can tell, you can hold this portfolio in Robinhood for free. Shouldn't need to re-balance more than once per year or so.

https://personal.vanguard.com/us/funds/snapshot?FundIntExt=I...

https://personal.vanguard.com/us/funds/snapshot?FundIntExt=I...

Pay off your credit cards and max out your 401k/IRA first.

Re: Investing Returns on the S&P500

#35
post #34

I am not a financial advisor and this is not financial advice! Robinhood seems like an OK way to keep a free portfolio of ETFs approximating a Vanguard all-in-one fund. My super-unscientific portfolio is loosely based on Vanguard's LifeStrategy Growth & Moderate Growth funds with a sliver of MGK that seemed to both boost returns and moderate declines. A $5k portfolio would be 6 MGK (10%), 19 VTI (40%), 23 VXUS (20%),…

I really don't understand the appeal of Robinhood... if you're going to hold stocks for years you really shouldn't be skimping on an $8 commission. Get a proper broker with a reputation.

Re: Investing Returns on the S&P500

#36
post #22

Looking at the discussions here I find it interesting that even in something as number driven as the stock market everybody argues about the meaning and the validity of the numbers. There really is no clear picture. But somehow the regular guy is supposed to navigate his way through this jungle of conflicting, confusing or meaningless numbers. And considering the long time frames most people don't have much opportuni…

1. If you're right 51% of the time when you invest you're going to get rich. Unfortunately the odds of you being right 51% of the time are incredibly low. 2. Heed Rule #1, and put most (if not all) of your money in broad market ETFs. 3. If you DO decide to actively invest, think about your strengths both in terms of character and industry knowledge and play to those. I don't know jack about healthcare and have had my head handed to me in Biotech because I am willing to hold through a lot of pain. What I AM good at is seeing strong secular trends in tech stocks and value discrepancies there. So most of my cash is in broad market ETFs, and I do a small amount of active investing in tech and telecom. And I work in Equity Research..

It astounds me that so many people think they can be great investors. It would be like me trying to build an ark with no experience in carpentry or ship-building. Really it just strikes me as a legal and socially acceptable way to gamble. Please recognize that this is a zero-sum game, and the other person taking your trade is likely a professional who spends their entire work week doing deep analysis.

Re: Investing Returns on the S&P500

#37

I don't think it is fair to say that next 100 years will be same as last 100 years: 1. GDP growth is not as high as it used to be anywhere in developed world: http://www.oecd.org/std/productivity-stats/oecd-compendium-o... 2. USA is superpower at the peak. Plenty of other stock market economies hasn't been so successful. E.g. Argentina used to be one of the richest country in the world. Investing in history is easy,…

So what alternative method do you propose for predicting growth (or decline) over the next century?

100 years ago you would have probably mostly invested in the UK, French, German and Russian stock market as well as the US. So if you want to predict the next 100 years I would try to combine the performance of the UK and the US, on the assumption that US is going to behave economically like an existing power rather than an up and coming power.

Also, just as some risky "foreign" markets did awesome a hundred years ago-- that's what the US was to the investing world in 1900, and it did great-- some will do great over the next 100 years. Some will have wipe outs as Russia, Germany and Argentina did. The future is hard to know.

Really though, owning some vanguard funds is a good idea. I'd just hold on to a little real estate as well.

Re: Investing Returns on the S&P500

#38
post #31
post #11

Does the stock data used suffer from Surviver bias? That is a free download of historical data that lacks failing, delisted companies of the past.

Yes sometimes companies are delisted from the S&P500, but if you invest in an S&P500 index fund , then your investment is also automatically adjusted to remove that company. Which makes me think: with index funds becoming more and more popular, should we see bigger and bigger crashes of stocks when they are removed from an index?

Potentially yes, but some hedge funds play the index dynamic by trading into or out of stocks before/after they are added.

Re: Investing Returns on the S&P500

#39
post #34

I am not a financial advisor and this is not financial advice! Robinhood seems like an OK way to keep a free portfolio of ETFs approximating a Vanguard all-in-one fund. My super-unscientific portfolio is loosely based on Vanguard's LifeStrategy Growth & Moderate Growth funds with a sliver of MGK that seemed to both boost returns and moderate declines. A $5k portfolio would be 6 MGK (10%), 19 VTI (40%), 23 VXUS (20%),…

Those are all Vanguard funds so you can trade those with Vanguard for free. You don't need Robinhood.

Re: Investing Returns on the S&P500

#40
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So at Year 1, we take every point on the S&P500 curve, look at every point on the S&P500 that's one year ahead, add in dividends and subtract inflation, and record all points as a relative gain or loss for Year 1. Point #3 is wrong.

While inflation was adjusted for it was not accurately adjusted for as it ignored taxes. If your returns are 10% and inflation is 10% you get taxed on that 10% and lose money. PS: Now if this is for 401k accounts or something that's another story.

You dont get taxed until you sell. The performance shown here is for a buy and hold strategy.
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