California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents • Hacker News Board

Re: California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

#311

Post by tropo » Wed, Jun 29, 2016, 4:18 AM UTC

dionidium wrote: post #221

maxsilver wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Talk to a young midwesterner and you will hear many whose ambition is to "get to NY," with this vague sense that magic will happen when they do. Eventually if you are not in SF or NYC you are nobody. Speaking as a late-20's midwesterner, I don't think it's about success or "FOMO" as much as it is about lifestyle. The Midwest doesn't have real cities (except for Chicago). You really can't have an urban lifestyle in…

it's doesn't even remotely compare to somewhere like Boston or NYC or DC or Philadelphia or San Francisco or Seattle. The benefits fall off pretty quickly after NYC, Chicago, LA, and San Francisco. As a Midwesterner who has long considered a move for exactly the reasons you mentioned, my reaction to a move to Philadelphia or Seattle or Austin (or whatever) is basically, "why bother?" I can live an "urban enough by co…

For city life, Boston clearly beats San Francisco. In the USA, probably only New York can beat Boston.

Prime example: two decades ago, Boston's MBTA T (subway/tram/light rail stuff) had technology that San Francisco's MUNI still can't manage.

LA is a sprawl. Chicago is a war zone. Well, LA is that too. This may be city life, but it doesn't count if we're considering positive attributes!

Re: California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

#312

Post by tropo » Wed, Jun 29, 2016, 4:31 AM UTC

CaptSpify wrote: post #93

sideband wrote: post #33

There's some sort of Stockholm syndrome prevalent among too many Bay Area residents that compels them to accept the lower quality of life. I lived there for several years until recently, and it was a surreal experience to hear others discuss the sacrifices they were making just to have a roof over their family's head, to provide a half-decent education for their children. And these were well-payed folks at the brand-…

eh, it just depends on what you want. Some people's priorities are different, and their tipping points are different. I live in an "overpriced" city, but I love it here. I've also lived in CA, TN, MO, so I've seen a pretty large range of high to low cost living. I'd much rather be in a large, expensive city than a small, cheap one.

Your options aren't limited to "large, expensive" and "small, cheap". There are two other options.

Large, cheap: Detroit, Houston, Atlanta

Small, expensive: Key West, Honolulu

Depending on how you count "small", add in any of: Palo Alto, Malibu, Summerville

Re: California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

#313

Post by Decade » Wed, Jun 29, 2016, 9:22 AM UTC

hx87 wrote: post #230

Decade wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my personal fantasy, killing Proposition 13 would be done in a progressive manner. Grandma who has paid off her house in Westwood Park and is now a paper millionaire would still keep her 1975 property tax level, but Disneyland would be taxed at currently prevailing rates. http://www.ocregister.com/taxdollars/strong-477502-ownership... http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2015/jun/29/convers...

In my personal fantasy, Grandma would keep her 1975 property tax level, as long as her municipality allows her and her neighbors to build or convert her house into apartments. Low property taxes should be rewards for a lack of NIMBYism.

Yeah, I’m not so heartless. Attitudes like that are why pro-development people have attracted a reputation as bullies and villains. Grandma wants to live out her days in the small house and quiet neighborhood where she has lived her life? Too bad, her land is more useful to society being consolidated into a tower full of “luxury” apartments.

That may be true. Especially in San Francisco, where grandmas and older gentlemen form a voting bloc that have delayed construction all over the Bay Area. But that doesn’t make it right in my mind to force grandma to either expand her property or get out. Now, zoning laws: That’s another injustice that should be corrected.

Proposition 13 has the additional perversity of discouraging repairs and improvements, because “new construction” [0] triggers a reassessment and a huge jump in property taxes. However, it’s a small step between letting grandma fix her house, and letting her rich developer son replace her house with a 4-story apartment building, pocketing the difference between the market rate rents and the low 1975 property tax, and starving the school district of funds.

If we don’t want to kick out fixed-income people, then we should simply tie the reassessment to the person’s ability to pay the higher tax.

[0] https://www.boe.ca.gov/proptaxes/faqs/newconstruction.html