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The “Cobra Effect” that is disabling paste on password fields

troyhunt.com

431–440 of 450 posts

Re: The “Cobra Effect” that is disabling paste on password fields

#431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a huge detriment to security. You can break sets of 5-7 characters at a time and combine them instead of having to break the entire password at once.

Seems like a tradeoff. What's more likely - that a bank loses its password database, or that some customers find themselves infected with keyloggers? Also in any bank that's even remotely sane this is just one leg of a 2FA; often a kind of a "delayed" 2FA - where one factor is enough to get you mostly "read-only" access, and any important changes or wiring actual money requires one-time SMS codes.

Any bank that's remotely sane with regards to website security (probably rather few of them) doesn't do this at all and uses standard forms of 2FA. This one doesn't even protect against keyloggers, because they can combine the characters from multiple logins to get the full password (guessing the remaining ones if necessary) and because the password might be reused somewhere else, and they try this at the expense of user convenience (counting characters is annoying) and security in the event of a leak involving password hashes (if they hashed them at all).

Re: The “Cobra Effect” that is disabling paste on password fields

#432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems astonishing to me to attempt to include in your threat model "login must be secure even on a system which has malware on it". If a system is infected with a keylogger, the LAST thing you want to do is allow the client to log in.

How would you prevent a client from logging in from an infected system?

I wouldn't. The point was more that this mitigation for password entry amounts to saying "if a client infected with malware logs in to the banking site, at least we can be sure that the malware won't be able to determine the user's password - they will only be able to steal all of the user's money".

Re: The “Cobra Effect” that is disabling paste on password fields

#433
post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"If it helps anyone, this Chrome extension has worked every time I've tried it: https://github.com/jswanner/DontFuckWithPaste" Shouldn't chrome itself be a "don't fuck with paste" tool ? As the world moves to the browser as the OS (essentially) it's imperative that the browser respect end user wishes and behave as a sentry against malicious websites and malicious website behavior.

Most of the time websites disable paste by registering "onPaste" events. How do you allow websites to keep doing that when necessary, but not allow the websites that break the paste?

> when necessary

When would I ever want a website to know the difference between me pasting and me typing some text?

Re: The “Cobra Effect” that is disabling paste on password fields

#434

TradeKing went full idiot and disabled entering your password by keyboard completely. They implemented an on-screen keyboard and there's no way to opt out. Their support forum is full of angry customers, people who can't use their screen readers anymore, etc. They argue [1] it's to protect their customers from key loggers. [1]: https://community.tradeking.com/forum/categories/suggestions...

Screen loggers then...heck a spy camera.

Re: The “Cobra Effect” that is disabling paste on password fields

#435
post #100

I believe that copy and paste is needed in login forms, as a UX expectation. Typing a secure random password is really painfully hard, especially on mobile. Sometimes password managers don't recognize the target form fields correctly, so copy/paste is the next step. The act is even encouraged through the use of convenient helper buttons in the password managers. However. In MacOs Sierra, Apple will introduce the Univ…

>However. In MacOs Sierra, Apple will introduce the Universal Clipboard feature. This means when someone copies a password on desktop, it would be available on their phone. Which is just one step away from being pasted, by mistake, into an IM chat or worse. If Apple has any sense at all they will allow apps to mark content being put in the clipboard as local-only. Otherwise this feature will leak all kinds of informa…

Yes, Apple has thought about this: https://twitter.com/1Password/status/743198373323341832

Re: The “Cobra Effect” that is disabling paste on password fields

#436
post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Malware can still be capable to take screenshot of the screen. If it would log mouse clicks I would imagine it would at least take screenshot if not a video.

Knowing when to take a screenshot, uploading and storing it, and extracting the password is a lot more work than dumping a text file and grepping for bofa.com.

Yeah, this is really shitty malware design.

Re: The “Cobra Effect” that is disabling paste on password fields

#437
post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I often use copy/paste to prevent typing errors. I save the password in some keychain software, then I copy/paste the password from that software into one of the password fields, and type it myself into the other.

Yes, I am the same, but there's [at least] two different types of users here. I use a password generator + manager. I never type a password, so I never mis-type a password. My father, on the other hand, hunts and pecks and I can't get him to use a manager despite my best protestations. Having to retype his password certainly avoids mis-types on his part, even if it encourages other bad behaviors in the process.

> despite my best protestations

Is it Dickens that you're currently reading?

Re: The “Cobra Effect” that is disabling paste on password fields

#438
post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can run a email server off a raspberry pi these days.

Not if you want other people to read your email, its going to go right to their spam filter.

Why is this?

Re: The “Cobra Effect” that is disabling paste on password fields

#439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the time websites disable paste by registering "onPaste" events. How do you allow websites to keep doing that when necessary, but not allow the websites that break the paste?

> when necessary When would I ever want a website to know the difference between me pasting and me typing some text?

Kudos +3

Edit: Does anyone else feel... increasingly... trapped?

Re: The “Cobra Effect” that is disabling paste on password fields

#440

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is all made up nonsense. You can paste your signature, choose some random image to represent your signature, or even merely click to sign. Have you used Docusign? HelloSign? Document signing in Mac Preview? Please don't spread FUD.

The companies involved have specified a protocol for communicating your chosen password to them. Namely, the well known "spelling protocol" whereby you repeat your choice, letter by letter, to the other party. They have gone to some pains to enforce that protocol. The article advocates breaking the bank's protocol for your own convenience because you supposedly know more than the other party. In general, in life, thi…

You know, we all -- us individuals -- have our own protocols as well. These don't always align with yours.

This may be hard for you to grasp.

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