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Happy Tau Day

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Re: Happy Tau Day

#31

Post by formula1 »

devishard wrote: post #25

Okay, tau is a little better. Meanwhile, millions of lines of code are written in languages with no type system to speak of, millions of Americans use imperial measurements, billions worldwide speak languages that are inefficient and ambiguous, and many many people aren't even educated enough to know about pi or tau. We have much more damaging problems than multiplying by 2. Given the gigantic amount of effort it wou…

I understand this perspective if arguments were a limited resource and that by not fighting about tau we would win other battles (which is not true). The reality is that there is no such thing as time "better spent" withoit enforcing some sort of oppressive regieme and ways to curb imagination. I believe the tau fight is one of the rare good fights.

Re: Happy Tau Day

#32

Post by jeffwass »

jobigoud wrote: post #22
nabla9 wrote: post #15

While choice between tau and pi is arbitrary from mathematical point, things like pedagogy, notational simplicity and aesthetics matter. The reason why I think π is probably better choice is because small multiples of constant are cognitively easier to process than fractions. 2π is easier to write and see as single object than τ/2. All we need to do is to make slight cognitive adjustment and think and teach 2π as a n…

> 2π is easier to write and see as single object than τ/2 The point is that you shouldn't have to write 2π in the first place. So notational simplicity would mandate the use of τ, not π. Noting that you will have to write τ/2 for a half turn is moot, in your case you'll also have to write π/2 for a quarter turn anyway.

It gets worse!

When using solid angles over a sphere, you're still going to need to use 2Tau steradians to cover a sphere. This factor of 2 will continue to cause confusion for the Tau fans.

Therefore we must also define a new constant Sigma = 4pi so we can cleanly and easily deal with steradians.

Anybody up for writing the Sigma Manifesto?

Re: Happy Tau Day

#33

Post by EugeneOZ »

devishard wrote: post #25

Okay, tau is a little better. Meanwhile, millions of lines of code are written in languages with no type system to speak of, millions of Americans use imperial measurements, billions worldwide speak languages that are inefficient and ambiguous, and many many people aren't even educated enough to know about pi or tau. We have much more damaging problems than multiplying by 2. Given the gigantic amount of effort it wou…

> "6/28 in the American calendar system"

it's enough to ignore this day by all people except Americans, so don't worry about others :)

Re: Happy Tau Day

#34

Post by jobigoud »

dri_ft wrote: post #21
greydius wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Because that's the way we've always done is" is never a valid argument.

Often it is. It's a perfectly good answer to, for example, "why do we drive on the side of the road that we do?"

If the choice really is arbitrary then yes. If there was a compelling argument to driving one side or the other then it would cease to be a good answer IMHO.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dagen_H

Re: Happy Tau Day

#35

Post by [deleted] »

jeffwass wrote: post #27
adwf wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To use your own argument, 2*pi is far, far more common to encounter in physics/maths ie. real world examples, therefore minimizing friction would be using Tau ;)

So to save confusion over a mere factor of two, you're proposing devoting an entire new Greek letter to just double a constant, and requiring students to understand pi anyway to make sense of hundreds of years of mathematical and scientific corpus? It's just like that xkcd comic about introducing a new standard and now having N+1 standards. Except in this case the new standard offers only a factor of two.

[deleted]

Re: Happy Tau Day

#38

Post by gravypod »

libeclipse wrote: post #14

It's just the same useless argument every year. Just use what you want. I've been taught pi since secondary school. I understand it well and can use it effectively. Never have I sat there and thought, "if only there was a shortcut to multiplying this by 2". There's whole sites, videos and movements to get tau popular. I just personally don't understand the point.

This isn't to save time multiplying by two. This is to uniform a hole slew of previously unrelated equations that can now be represented similarly.

Re: Happy Tau Day

#39

Post by devishard »

formula1 wrote: post #31
devishard wrote: post #25

Okay, tau is a little better. Meanwhile, millions of lines of code are written in languages with no type system to speak of, millions of Americans use imperial measurements, billions worldwide speak languages that are inefficient and ambiguous, and many many people aren't even educated enough to know about pi or tau. We have much more damaging problems than multiplying by 2. Given the gigantic amount of effort it wou…

I understand this perspective if arguments were a limited resource and that by not fighting about tau we would win other battles (which is not true). The reality is that there is no such thing as time "better spent" withoit enforcing some sort of oppressive regieme and ways to curb imagination. I believe the tau fight is one of the rare good fights.

Arguments are a limited resource. I have 45 minutes on the train and I'm using it to argue about tau, and I don't have the time or energy for more. And when society is divided on a lot of issues, people run into outrage fatigue and become apathetic.

And to say that there is no such thing as time better spent unless you enforce an oppressive regime is a perfect solution fallacy. Sure, people will always do inefficient things, but if I could persuade even one person to behave more efficiently, that's a pretty significant gain.

I'd also like to note that if you're arguing for tau over the more popular pi based on its efficiency, you probably shouldn't argue against efficency.

Re: Happy Tau Day

#40

Post by panglott »

devishard wrote: post #25

Okay, tau is a little better. Meanwhile, millions of lines of code are written in languages with no type system to speak of, millions of Americans use imperial measurements, billions worldwide speak languages that are inefficient and ambiguous, and many many people aren't even educated enough to know about pi or tau. We have much more damaging problems than multiplying by 2. Given the gigantic amount of effort it wou…

> billions worldwide speak languages that are inefficient and ambiguous

All humans speak languages that are inefficient and ambiguous. Thank goodness!

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