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The Real Product Market Fit

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Re: The Real Product Market Fit

#41

Post by matrix »

mwseibel wrote: post #2

Hey folks - this is Michael from YC - happy to hear your thoughts on the post

The concept of good/bad market is attractive, but I'm wondering is this is really a good model. How do you account for innovations that require a market to learn its benefits before they want it?

In the beginning, a market for a innovation looks like a terrible market. Few people wanted a PC in the early days. Vacuum cleaners were a hard sell when they were first introduced, and there are countless other examples. All of these markets required that the buyers be educated and they had to be convinced it was worth the effort to learn how to use the new thing.

It seems to be, saying "don't be in a market where it is hard to sell" is great in theory, but honestly I think every truly innovative product has to create their market to some extent.

Re: The Real Product Market Fit

#42

Post by btcboss »

mwseibel wrote: post #2

Hey folks - this is Michael from YC - happy to hear your thoughts on the post

"If you handed them a brick they would still grab it and try to hit themselves on the head to put out the fire. You need to find problems so dire that users are willing try half-baked, v1, imperfect solutions."

this kind of falls into line with Reid Hoffman's famous quote:

"If you are not embarrassed by the first version of your product, you’ve launched too late."

I think these statements paint a wide brush and fail particularly for products whose main value prop is ease of use.

If your product's core value prop is UI/UX/ease of use, you cannot deliver that with a buggy half finished product. And if you cannot deliver the value you intend to provide, then you are shooting yourself in the foot, spooking users losing their trust in your ability to deliver.

Obviously each product is different, but I think specifically for this type, these methodologies should be omitted. Because the most likely case is that your customer is already solving the problem with a "brick", whether that is your competition or a home made solution that they have created. Handing them another brick will not suffice.

Re: The Real Product Market Fit

#43

Post by panic »

beat wrote: post #8

Makes me think of something I say occasionally... you need a problem so compelling that customers will pay for a buggy, incomplete solution, because a buggy, incomplete solution is what you're building.

And then we wonder why the world is full of buggy, incomplete solutions!

Re: The Real Product Market Fit

#44

Post by rrecuero »

nostrademons wrote: post #30
gmarx wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see your point but that implies that on rare occasions hotels are sold out at a specific time and place. I don't think that is the problem AirBnB solves

I'm wondering if this may dovetail with another piece of common YC advice, "start by going narrow & deep". I didn't start using AirBnB until 2013, and I used them because they were remarkably polished and made the experience super-easy. They weren't at all a "hair on fire" problem for me . But I could imagine that at some point in time, there was a group of people who were so desperate for a place to stay that they'd…

Great write up. You hear many times the advice of getting MVP out and then "just" listen to your customers and the data. A lot of times, as you said, there is virtually nobody that cares and few feedback. You are just treading through a desert without nothing to guide you...

Re: The Real Product Market Fit

#45

Post by rrecuero »

jonnathanson wrote: post #5
mwseibel wrote: post #2

Hey folks - this is Michael from YC - happy to hear your thoughts on the post

Hey Michael! Great piece. Signs of product/market fit are often strong and unambiguous, and that needs to be emphasized. That said, many startups get v1 wrong. Not necessarily because their MVP is too clunky, but because they fail to frame (or graap) the correct problem in the first place. Or because their solution to that problem just isn't the right one. (As you aptly put it, founders can get hung up on their solut…

Same here. I'd love a post about it as well

Re: The Real Product Market Fit

#46

Post by soneca »

mwseibel wrote: post #2

Hey folks - this is Michael from YC - happy to hear your thoughts on the post

Not sure you are still paying attention to this thread, but...

When you have a marketplace, would it require a hair is on fire problem for both supply and demand?

I work at a startup marketplace where we clearly have a good solution for a hair on fire problem at the demand side, but our supply side isn't just that interested. They sign up, but their engagement is very inconsistent to say the least.

Re: The Real Product Market Fit

#47

Post by billionsfan1 »

I'd like to find more resources / books (I love audio books these days) that answer some of the questions at the bottom of Marc Andreesen's original post:

- How exactly do you go about getting to product/market fit if you don't hit it right out of the gate

- How do you know when to change strategy and go after a different market or build a different product?

Anyone have books on some of these mechanics?

Re: The Real Product Market Fit

#48

Post by rahimnathwani »

soneca wrote: post #46
mwseibel wrote: post #2

Hey folks - this is Michael from YC - happy to hear your thoughts on the post

Not sure you are still paying attention to this thread, but... When you have a marketplace, would it require a hair is on fire problem for both supply and demand? I work at a startup marketplace where we clearly have a good solution for a hair on fire problem at the demand side, but our supply side isn't just that interested. They sign up, but their engagement is very inconsistent to say the least.

What problem does your marketplace solve for suppliers? Does it get them extra revenue? Is the amount significant to them?

Do they have to do something extra/different to work through your platform (e.g. different process, different service level, pay commission to you)? Is it still worth it?

Do they use it once and then stop? If so, just ask them.

Re: The Real Product Market Fit

#49

Post by andyjdavis »

panic wrote: post #43
beat wrote: post #8

Makes me think of something I say occasionally... you need a problem so compelling that customers will pay for a buggy, incomplete solution, because a buggy, incomplete solution is what you're building.

And then we wonder why the world is full of buggy, incomplete solutions!

I am not sure that anyone who works with technology in any capacity wonders that.

Re: The Real Product Market Fit

#50

Post by kinj28 »

Incase of enterprise tech - finding repeatable pain across set of customers is a must. Solving one enterprises "hair on fire" problem is no guarantee of similar pain existing else where.

My observation from being in enterprise mobility market for 10 years - while one customer realizes hair on fire, many others are diabetic and don't feel the pain.

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