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Ask HN: Next european hub Berlin?

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Re: Ask HN: Next european hub Berlin?

#41

Post by zhte415 »

BjoernKW wrote: post #34
zhte415 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The immigration argument was never about skilled workers. London itself voted heavily in favour of remaining. Immigration was a stirred-up debate citing unskilled eastern european workers taking low paid jobs, heeding and feeding the insecurities of areas of the UK which are and have been economically depressed for decades. I expect visas for skilled workers to quickly become very, very easy, and visas for unskilled…

Making immigration an argument only about unskilled labour is incredibly short-sighted. You can't run an economy just with highly-skilled workers. At the very least you can expect things like construction or plumbing to become a lot more expensive (not that I consider either unskilled labour but those are typically not included when talking about visa for skilled workers). Then there's the foreign exchange risk creat…

I fully agree.

Re: Ask HN: Next european hub Berlin?

#42

Post by NetStrikeForce »

marvel_boy wrote: post #3

London is and will be the start-up hub. Barcelona is also is a good place to start a business, but London has a lot a talent form around the world. No brexit can change that.

Now that Spanish elections are settled and the current government will likely keep in power, it would be a master move to ease the legal / bureaucratic / tax side of starting a business in Spain and attract some investments fleeing from the current uncertainty because the whole Brexit situation.

Talent is still very high in Barcelona, as the city's attractiveness is not restricted to job opportunities and salaries: Weather, food, international connections, cost of living, location in mainland Europe, the Mediterranean, culture, sports, Pyreness at 2hr drive if you prefer skiing, lots of mountains closer to hike, excellent and cheap public transport network, fast trains to Madrid and Paris, ... What's not to love? :)

Of course this is not going to happen as the government is corrupt and has little interest on boosting startups. Their idea of business is siphoning people's money through utility bills (all presidents have / had ultimately become chairmen of different utility companies) and bank commissions.

Re: Ask HN: Next european hub Berlin?

#43

Post by NetStrikeForce »

hocuspocus wrote: post #38
kafkaesq wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Berlin you can easily hire people from all over Europe and nearby countries without much immigration hassle. Well a few lines up from here someone was claiming the exact opposite -- "there's a huge lack of talent." (Which would seem to imply both local talent, and talent that can be drawn from outside).

Again, look at the competition. Is it any easier for other cities? - London: higher salaries, much higher CoL => lower disposable income - Dublin: barely higher salaries, higher CoL - Amsterdam: similar/lower salaries, higher CoL - Paris: lower salaries, higher CoL - Stockholm, Helsinki: lower salaries, higher CoL (and crazy housing situation in Stockholm) - Southern/Eastern Europe, Baltics: low CoL but the salaries…

You're missing places like Reading, where the salaries are London-ish (as you can just take a 25 minutes train to London for work), but the housing is cheaper. I pay for a decently sized house as much as I would pay for a tiny studio in London (and probably not in Zone 1)

Still probably more expensive than Berlin though :)

Re: Ask HN: Next european hub Berlin?

#44

Post by CM30 »

yulaow wrote: post #40
CM30 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The low payment thing might be a general European issue when it comes to the tech industry. If you're ever wondering why Europe doesn't really have much of an equivalent of Silicon Valley yet, well maybe the wages being about half of their equivalents in the valley might have something to do with it.

That's true, but I would also add that in Europe you have a work culture against long work days/week, and it very rare to be asked to work more than 38/40h/w... and if you are asked to typically you are well compensated (1.5x/2x your normal wage x hour). Also vacation days are typically at least 5/6 weeks. I mean, yes the market need to improve wages, but considering also the different work culture they are not _that…

That's a good point, though I wonder if it points to a mindset difference between tech/startup folks in the US and those in Europe.

People who work for US startups seem to be very driven to succeed, regardless of the costs. It's seen as encouraged to constantly work, regardless if if the stress might cause you to keel over before you're thirty.

In Europe, there still seems to be an 'eight hours a day is fine' mentality, even in startups and small businesses. The idea that having a family and life and other activities is as important as becoming rich.

Maybe the mindset differences can be summed up as 'work yourself to death now but hope to retire early' or 'work less hours but work for more of your life'.

Re: Ask HN: Next european hub Berlin?

#45

Post by uola »

yulaow wrote: post #40
CM30 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The low payment thing might be a general European issue when it comes to the tech industry. If you're ever wondering why Europe doesn't really have much of an equivalent of Silicon Valley yet, well maybe the wages being about half of their equivalents in the valley might have something to do with it.

That's true, but I would also add that in Europe you have a work culture against long work days/week, and it very rare to be asked to work more than 38/40h/w... and if you are asked to typically you are well compensated (1.5x/2x your normal wage x hour). Also vacation days are typically at least 5/6 weeks. I mean, yes the market need to improve wages, but considering also the different work culture they are not _that…

Yes, if you factor in things like student loans, vacation, housing costs, working conditions, transportation etc. you'll make about the same in northen europe as in SV. Not including more management level positions at large tech companies.

Re: Ask HN: Next european hub Berlin?

#46

Post by uola »

wallflower wrote: post #39
LuisFerreira wrote: post #7

Lisbon will be the place;),nice people, lots of talented people,english is common language,food . http://rethink.beta-i.pt/2016/05/04/report-lisbon-startup-sc...

From the Airbnb thread http://www.buala.org/pt/cidade/quem-vai-poder-morar-em-lisbo...

Yes, unfortunetly I think it's very likely that costs will grow faster than the startup scene in Lisbon. Loosing much of it's attraction.
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