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New Cities

blog.ycombinator.com

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Re: New Cities

#531

Post by ativzzz »

brett40324 wrote: post #523

This research is a waste of resources unless most basic needs of citizens becomes free as in freedom and price. For that to happen, global retail franchises, as well as the major players in countless other service industries are going to have to be rejected by our newly realized cities. They should be rejected unless they are willing to donate extremely large proceeds and services to the city. If they comply, they st…

> This research is a waste of resources unless...

Your vision of anti corporatism will be hard to realize in today's developed world, but this is the exact kind of use of resources that humanity needs. Would you rather YC reinvest their profits into making more money like most business do? Or invest their profits into answering questions about humanity and its potential future that are unanswered?

Also, would you really want our education to be sponsored and paid for by Coca Cola?

If we take into account science fiction, humans could establish a colony on another planet. This would be considered a city and the research could answer some interesting questions. Flying out a bunch of humans in a spaceship that takes multiple generations to reach its destination would be considered a traveling space city. This research could answer some interesting questions.

Re: New Cities

#532

Post by pjmorris »

It might be instructive to look at past examples of planned cities that haven't worked out. I'm thinking of the original intent of what became the EPCOT theme park [1], and of the less-than-hoped-for success of Alexander's pattern langauge(s) represented by The Oregon Experiment [2] and its long-term lack of impact on Eugene, OR and architecture in general.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EPCOT_%28concept%29 [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Oregon_Experiment

Re: New Cities

#533

Post by kuschku »

epistasis wrote: post #411
zanny wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope the aspiration for new cities would start with the presumption of density. An experiment like this should be trying to solve a problem, not just add more urban sprawl, and you don't get a city culture off preplanned road infrastructure and zoning laws.

It's an interesting question: how does one maximize the potential interconnections between people and places? I know that when I'm in a dense city, it definitely feels like there are a lot more places and things I can visit than when I'm in a suburban area with a car. But that needs to be balanced with the desires of some to have fewer connections, but perhaps more yard. And some people honestly desire to have fewer…

Look at developments in Europe, they show often well how it’s done.

This is a development from 2005, started as pure residential suburb: https://maps.here.com/?map=54.3557,10.07057,17,satellite

Look at the street planning, look at how the foot paths exist, and look at that one odd park on the one side.

Over the next decades and centuries, the houses will be replaced with denser ones again and again, and it will slowly develop to something like https://maps.here.com/?map=54.33864,10.14098,17,satellite and then something like https://maps.here.com/?map=54.31908,10.12497,17,satellite

You notice how they get more and more pedestrian friendly over time – but the first one is already bikable, walkable, has a bus line cutting through it, and is still usable by car.

This is what the initial stage looks like: http://i.imgur.com/P0T2DaG.jpg http://i.imgur.com/DHhjSQ8.jpg

This is a typical residential suburb – but, as you might have noticed on bing maps, at several points, stores and services and small businesses already popped up. A dentist, two physiotherapy and a logotherapy practice, a small bakery and shop.

Currently there are discussions about a small supermarket coming into the area.

Maybe later some more stores, and some buildings might be replaced with new ones that have on the lowest floor businesses instead.

Re: New Cities

#534

Post by jessaustin »

kapitza wrote: post #352
sama wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be better to move a few hundred startups. Startups sometimes grow up to be big tech companies, and it's much easier to move tiny companies. We could, uh, help with that.

I thought this wasn't a "libertarian utopia for techies?" When you look at how ordinary people choose a city to live in, the most important variable is who else gets to live there . Everything else is a rounding error. Boulder, Colorado is a beautiful little city. Its population is roughly the same as that of West Point, Liberia. Compare a city with the legislation and architecture of West Point, but the population o…

This is a key insight. So many want to talk about rules and architecture, but habits outweigh everything else. When I lived in Singapore a long time ago, it was impossible to get off the subway during busy times, because of the solid mass of humanity who were trying to get in the door before anyone else got out. When I visited later, it was easy, because in the interim they had passed a law about where you have to stand while waiting. I've lived in lots of other cities with subways, and none of them needed that law, because the people there were not in the habit of being morons on the subway.

Re: New Cities

#535

Post by kuschku »

fudged71 wrote: post #111
verg wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The lack of on-street parking was something I noticed visiting Japan. Streets can be much smaller when they don't have 20-24 feet of parking. In the US, a massive percentage of our most valuable land goes to subsidized vehicle storage. It's insane.

Narrower streets, wider sidewalks, more trees.

German suburb showing the example: http://i.imgur.com/DHhjSQ8.jpg

Re: New Cities

#536

Post by rtkwe »

jessaustin wrote: post #512
rtkwe wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe in denser cities or downtown but where I live and work if I wanted to take a bus my easy 9 mile 20 minute drive becomes 60 to 90 minutes with 3 bus changes. That's a lot of ground to make up.

...my easy 9 mile 20 minute drive becomes... Such a drive is likely not stable. 9 mile 10 minute drives, in rural areas, are stable. But unless your economy is moribund, once that's up to 20 minutes, chances are good that ten years from now that same drive will be 45 minutes.

Eh looking just at those numbers maybe, I'm kind of in an odd area the most direct way is via mostly slow residential streets. If I swing wide to the longer highway route it's 2 minutes faster but further (11 miles ~18 minutes) and more annoying dealing with traffic (where I merge onto 40 I have to get over 4 lanes in a short time) so I usually take the slower but more pleasant route.

It was far worse at my old apartment 5 miles in 11 minutes became 50 minutes if I took the bus.

I'm in RTP which is far from moribund but Durham where I live is getting the least new residents it seems.

Re: New Cities

#537

Post by Jtsummers »

BinaryIdiot wrote: post #505
Jtsummers wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trollies. They leave the roads open for other forms of transportation. They can be made to move slow enough that people can embark/disembark while it's in motion. Some level of automation can allow them to realize they're full and skip stops unless requested by a passenger. Hell, you could put a button or offer a phone app so people can request it to stop at a particular stop instead of flagging it down like a bus. A…

Hmm not bad. Embarking / disembarking sounds difficult for the handicapped but I'm sure that's work-around-able. I'd be interested in seeing more cities adopt quick transportation like this even if it's in a different but similar form.

Regular stops for them. You'd have them frequently enough. Everyone else can use those or get off between stops.

Re: New Cities

#539

Post by hueving »

justinator wrote: post #381
curryst wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Changing the way cars function inside the city is only part of what would need to change. Near me things just aren't laid out well for pedestrians. It would take me about an hour to walk to the nearest grocery store (not counting corner stores, because all they sell is junk food). Biking should be much shorter, though I can't say I've ever tried. We would need to stop the trend of having a small number of large store…

> Cars are on a pedestal not only because of convenience and speed, but because they're the lowest common denominator. The lowest common denominator? I don't own a car, and I'm sure many other people in my city don't either, so no: it's not the lowest common denominator for us: walking is. Cars are themselves very expensive and require a massive amount of infrastructure to function. Look around a city and think of al…

>They've replaced everything else because their massively profitable to produce.

That's the most ridiculous justification I've heard for anything. A thousand dollar piece of toilet paper is also massively profitable to produce, but nobody would buy it. People buy cars because they are useful.

If you think most people don't enjoy the freedom they get from owning a car, you are living in a bubble. I work with people that could take the caltrain and get to work faster, but they still choose their car because of the flexibility in schedule and destinations it gives them.

Also, walking is not the lowest common denominator if you have a job far away, have small children, or have a disability.

Re: New Cities

#540

Post by jessaustin »

camikazeg wrote: post #213

I've spent too many hours day dreaming about building a city from scratch in the middle of the country. An ideal spot would be around Wilson Lake in Kansas. It is almost equidistant from Denver, Oklahoma City (with a straight shot to Dallas) and Kansas City right in that sweet spot where high speed rail is more attractive than air travel. Bonus: there isn't an existing city there with existing governance. I've always…

Kansas State University isn't far from Wilson Lake, and it hasn't happened there. I'm hoping that rail technology will keep improving until the Great Plains as they actually exist will be in the "sweet spot". It wouldn't have to be as fast as air travel, but if travelling from KC to Denver were 3 hours rather than over 8, we'd live in a different country.

I'm not suggesting that TSA should just get worse and worse until air travel takes as long as train travel.

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