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Burnout and Mental Health

stephaniehurlburt.com

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Re: Burnout and Mental Health

#21

Post by ryandrake »

> I was used to being scared of being fired-- not that long ago, I'd been scraping by, had a hard time finding work. I didn't fully realize that I had more power now as a programmer. I didn't think about power struggles-- how other people did go home, but because they took the risk of standing up for themselves.

This is a real part of burnout--the realization that as employee #3422 you don't have much bargaining power. But I came to the opposite conclusion to the author's.

You either work to burnout levels or they'll just replace you with someone who will. I used to be a really cocky 20-something programmer, not afraid of getting fired or laid off--until it happened! Ending up about a month from insolvency gives you a realistic perspective on the power imbalance between you and your employer. Combine that with having a family to support, and you become much more willing to go into the "burnout zone" in order to keep the bills paid.

Re: Burnout and Mental Health

#22

Post by tsunamifury »

jondubois wrote: post #12

This sounds like the past 10 years of my life. I can't even enjoy normal life activities anymore... And I can't afford to take a long enough break to recover (if that's still possible?). I don't even care about memories anymore - I'm in survival mode; I'm just a bullet moving towards its target. It's like I've been running through a tunnel as fast possible for a long time and I can finally just see the light at the e…

This is actually one of the symptoms of anxiety -- it makes you over-estimate the consequences of stopping.

You need to choose to take time, push through the initial panic rush that will come from it, then come out the other side.

Re: Burnout and Mental Health

#23

Post by cm3 »

Burnout comes in various forms and intensities, but what's most important is that at least the first one will not be recognized as such. You have the symptoms but it's not like the flu or a headache, so you have no idea that you're burning out. If you're a developer and started coding as a hobby, try to recognize it early and find a better job or fix something else that will resolve the root causes, but try not to let it ruin the love of coding if you can. This sounds easier than it is, I'm well aware of that.

Re: Burnout and Mental Health

#24

Post by gt565k »

jondubois wrote: post #12

This sounds like the past 10 years of my life. I can't even enjoy normal life activities anymore... And I can't afford to take a long enough break to recover (if that's still possible?). I don't even care about memories anymore - I'm in survival mode; I'm just a bullet moving towards its target. It's like I've been running through a tunnel as fast possible for a long time and I can finally just see the light at the e…

Take 2 weeks off and buy an airplane ticket asap.

It helps to have something to look forward to.

Go to a different country, a change of scenery, new cultures to explore are always a great way to take your mind off the daily grind.

Re: Burnout and Mental Health

#25

Post by tequila_shot »

outworlder wrote: post #18
tequila_shot wrote: post #4

This is exactly what I am going through right now. It's been 5 months and I don't have any recollection of my first month. I'm in the middle of a high profile project which goes to UAT in two weeks, and I know it is slated to fail. There's just too many issues. I have been working 85+ hours every week constantly for the past ~5 months. Being an Immigrant ( H1B) makes it more difficult. All I do these days is code for…

> All I do these days is code for 15+ hours everyday with an impending weight hanging over my head constantly that I'll be made a scapegoat if the project fails. This is a legitimate question, not a criticism: why do you think that you, specifically, will be the scapegoat? Is it possible that you can find a way to not work 15 hours straight? Since you know that the project will crash and burn anyway, this effort will…

> This is a legitimate question, not a criticism: why do you think that you, specifically, will be the scapegoat?

Because I am the lead developer on this project and the manager of this project was always unavailable to escalations / concerns. In the end I just think he'd wipe his hands off and say he was never involved in this project ( though he is supposed to be working 50% on this project)

Re: Burnout and Mental Health

#26

Post by zeveb »

_yosefk wrote: post #9

For someone with no responsibilities except work, 70 hour weeks are sustainable (did it for 3 years, not to be recommended, but no burnout.) People report way larger numbers of hours though and probably have to handle more than just their work; I don't know where things start to break down, they ought to somewhere.

> For someone with no responsibilities except work, 70 hour weeks are sustainable (did it for 3 years, not to be recommended, but no burnout.)

Folks in the military do 84-hour work weeks when deployed (twelve on/twelve off — and really, with 30-60 minutes of handover time factored in it works out to 91-98 hours/week), and are deployed for up to a year. It's brutal, but it is sustainable. Having no other responsibilities to think of probably helps; I've no idea how distracting modern communications technology is to folks with families.

Re: Burnout and Mental Health

#27

Post by seibelj »

billmalarky wrote: post #16
_yosefk wrote: post #9

For someone with no responsibilities except work, 70 hour weeks are sustainable (did it for 3 years, not to be recommended, but no burnout.) People report way larger numbers of hours though and probably have to handle more than just their work; I don't know where things start to break down, they ought to somewhere.

"no responsibilities except work" I assume this also means the responsibility to keep one's health in check is sacrificed for additional workload? I can't imagine keeping up an exercise routine working that many hours.

I don't think it's that crazy, it's five 12 hour days and then 10 hours over the weekend. It's a lot of work, but without kids and other responsibilities it's doable. 70 hours of working is usually only 40-50 of real programming / hardcore thinking, there's always internet surfing, lunch, chit chat, etc. mingled in.

Re: Burnout and Mental Health

#28

Post by kbenson »

billmalarky wrote: post #16
_yosefk wrote: post #9

For someone with no responsibilities except work, 70 hour weeks are sustainable (did it for 3 years, not to be recommended, but no burnout.) People report way larger numbers of hours though and probably have to handle more than just their work; I don't know where things start to break down, they ought to somewhere.

"no responsibilities except work" I assume this also means the responsibility to keep one's health in check is sacrificed for additional workload? I can't imagine keeping up an exercise routine working that many hours.

If you assume a 7 day work week, it's less crazy from an hours-in-the-day perspective, but more crazy from a no-recover-time perspective. I kind of assume the hours a week number is somewhat inclusive of non-specific work items. It may include a lunch where you are on the computer but not specifically working, such as watching a few short videos, and time spent on HN and other social/information resources, which may be somewhat relaxing.

Not everyone means the same thing when they say something like "15 hour work day". That said, I think short busts of non work specific activity without changing your surrounding is no substitute for changing your surroundings and context enough to switch gears for a while. A trip to the local coffee house with coworkers where you still discuss work is a poor substitute for an extra 15-30 minutes at the end of the day where get out and do something entirely different.

Re: Burnout and Mental Health

#29

Post by jondubois »

kafkaesq wrote: post #13
jondubois wrote: post #12

This sounds like the past 10 years of my life. I can't even enjoy normal life activities anymore... And I can't afford to take a long enough break to recover (if that's still possible?). I don't even care about memories anymore - I'm in survival mode; I'm just a bullet moving towards its target. It's like I've been running through a tunnel as fast possible for a long time and I can finally just see the light at the e…

If you care to share - why would that be?

I've been working on my latest project for about 5 years (before that I spent 5 years on a project which ended in failure) with my latest project, the market has kept changing and I keep pivoting in subtle ways to stay relevant.

I've never raised any funding and I'm competing against really well funded startups so basically every few months, I see some other company implement my idea (ahead of me) and I have to keep refining the idea and narrowing my target market in order to stay competitive.

I managed to find some people to join the project so it's a bit better now but much of the weight is still on me.

Re: Burnout and Mental Health

#30

Post by EnFinlay »

jondubois wrote: post #12

This sounds like the past 10 years of my life. I can't even enjoy normal life activities anymore... And I can't afford to take a long enough break to recover (if that's still possible?). I don't even care about memories anymore - I'm in survival mode; I'm just a bullet moving towards its target. It's like I've been running through a tunnel as fast possible for a long time and I can finally just see the light at the e…

What's the light at the end? What's the train and why is it going to get dark and ugly? I'm not being facetious, I'm wondering if you're feeling the same thing as me.
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