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Woman wins $10k judgment against Microsoft for forced Windows 10 upgrade

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Re: Woman wins $10k judgment against Microsoft for forced Windows 10 upgrade

#261

Post by eknkc »

pavel_lishin wrote: post #53
themartorana wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have mixed feelings about this. I'm with you 100% on having the explicit opportunity to opt out of updates like this. That said, a large swath of Windows users are not nearly as technically literate as you and your mother are, and automatically helping people forward (if for nothing else, security fixes and ongoing support) is a Good Thing in my book (so long as it's free, and it is). There is no doubt there are co…

Those technically illiterate users are going to have trouble with Windows 10. My stepfather is in his 70s, and I had to help him set up the weather app - and it took me about ten minutes how to figure out how to set a default location! 10 is different enough from 7 that they're going to have to learn a lot of new habits - and while that's just the nature of modern life, some people are going to suffer significantly m…

Best thing I've ever done was to buy two iPads for my parents. I'd strongly suggest that.

Re: Woman wins $10k judgment against Microsoft for forced Windows 10 upgrade

#262

Post by merb »

themartorana wrote: post #42
Guest98123 wrote: post #19

A few days ago I was visiting family, and my Mom was online Skyping relatives on her Windows 7 PC. She comes running into the other room and says her PC just restarted while she was talking, and now it says something about configuring Windows 10, even though she was always careful to opt-out of the constant requests to upgrade. So, we had to wait for it to install the OS, then decline the terms of service, then wait…

I have mixed feelings about this. I'm with you 100% on having the explicit opportunity to opt out of updates like this. That said, a large swath of Windows users are not nearly as technically literate as you and your mother are, and automatically helping people forward (if for nothing else, security fixes and ongoing support) is a Good Thing in my book (so long as it's free, and it is). There is no doubt there are co…

> so long as it's free, and it is

There is no such thing.

Re: Woman wins $10k judgment against Microsoft for forced Windows 10 upgrade

#263

Post by Vexs »

freehunter wrote: post #223
nitrogen wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No matter the dialog box, closing it should always mean "do nothing and go back to where I was before", not "do your sneaky crap later when I'm asleep or busy". Anything else is a malignant antipattern.

Don't Chrome and Firefox do this by default now? Automatically download an update in the background and install it without asking when you close the browser window?

There's a pretty sizable difference between chrome updates and updating from 7 to 10. The fundamentals of chrome remain the same, and for 99% of users they don't notice a difference.

Granted, they've never really done a "chrome 2" style of upgrade, and I'm curious how they'll handle it.

Re: Woman wins $10k judgment against Microsoft for forced Windows 10 upgrade

#264

Post by marssaxman »

eropple wrote: post #216
PhasmaFelis wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not an excuse. Microsoft can and has been pushing updates to 7 to enable the constant upgrade nagging. They've even been continually pushing new updates that get more and more naggy. There is nothing preventing them from including an update that makes 7's restart logic less sadistic, but they've chosen not to do that.

Can you explain to me why Microsoft should expend time and effort to encourage behavior (staying on Windows 7) that increases their costs and increases fragility in their ecosystem? I'm not sympathetic to the dark patterns they use to push people to upgrade, but I'm 100% onboard with not pushing improvements to an older operating system.

How about this: it's none of their business what people choose to do with their computers. It's not their ecosystem.

Re: Woman wins $10k judgment against Microsoft for forced Windows 10 upgrade

#265

Post by bluecalm »

djsumdog wrote: post #118
bluecalm wrote: post #41

Their practices for downloading updates in Windows 10 itself are not much better. I tried following all the instructions to disable automatic updates on my Windows 10 pro laptop and still they got me with 20 minutes update at the time I needed my computer urgently. Windows behaves like malware these days and it's very sad to see.

Why are you disabling updates in Windows 10? I meant you're already on it. Updates are the most valuable security defense (next to never using anti-virus as it's a massive attack vector).

I just don't want them to be automatic. I want to have control over time they are installed so I can, you know, have my computer available when it's needed and do maintenance when it's not needed.

Apparently Windows 10 randomly resets the update settings though so it's very hard to avoid surprises. This is just user hostile behavior in my book.

Re: Woman wins $10k judgment against Microsoft for forced Windows 10 upgrade

#267

Post by boundring »

chrisfosterelli wrote: post #256
boundring wrote: post #251

Am I the only one who leaves the Windows Update service entry disabled under the "services" settings? Seriously, it's that simple. I check once a week, tops.

I wouldn't say disabling all security updates is a good solution.

Read a little more carefully: I update when I want my laptop tied up with an inconvenient process. Scheduled, not never at all.

Re: Woman wins $10k judgment against Microsoft for forced Windows 10 upgrade

#268

Post by noisem4ker »

dagw wrote: post #62
ak217 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience, Windows 10 is a poor upgrade from Windows 7 on laptops and desktops. The interface is a buggy, half-hearted attempt to roll back the trainwreck that is Windows 8 to something resembling 7, except 7 still works better since it doesn't have to deal with all the Metro (tablet/touch interface) bits. For now I'm keeping Windows 7 with manual updates - while loathing the fact that I have to use Windows at…

except 7 still works better since it doesn't have to deal with all the Metro (tablet/touch interface) bits. Honestly, What metro bits? If been using Windows 10 on my desktop since release and there are no metro bits that show up in my day to day use my computer. The only bits that where there in Windows 10 where the tiles in start menu, but they where easy to remove. Personally I consider Windows 10 a clear improveme…

The new shiny, touchy, metro-y Settings app, for one. Half the settings have moved there, while the rest of the stuff (generally the more advanced, non mobile-related kind) still lies in the "legacy" Control Panel.

One of the most embarrassing aberrations of trying to convert a powerful, productivity-oriented PC operating system into a mobile devices firmware.

Re: Woman wins $10k judgment against Microsoft for forced Windows 10 upgrade

#269

Post by fabianhjr »

notalaser wrote: post #259
fapjacks wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the record, Linux does not do this, and it is an operating system.

On the other hand, many/most distributions have major releases every 6-12 months, and the upgrade process is a lot more hit and miss. I have Debian and (unexpectedly enough...) Fedora services that I've managed to drag along two and, respectively, three major releases. On the other hand, I can't remember ever managing to get a clean upgrade on Ubuntu after 8.04 or so. My latest attempt has been miserable, I spent hal…

> many/most distributions have major releases every 6-12 months, and the upgrade process is a lot more hit and miss.

You might want to try a rolling release distro, something like Antergos (Arch + Tweaks)

Re: Woman wins $10k judgment against Microsoft for forced Windows 10 upgrade

#270

Post by PeterisP »

freehunter wrote: post #227
arximboldi wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Holding back the industry" No! I think we, the software industry, are very irresponsible when it comes to __planned obsolescence__ [1]. Computers from 10 years ago are very capable of doing most things common users want to do nowadays. However, many modern operating systems and applications make these computers unusable. We are forcing users to upgrade software, and because of all the layers of cruft accumulated in…

Upgrading software isn't (or shouldn't be) planned obsolescence. There's nothing inherent about software that means throwing away hardware. The only reason a Windows 7 machine wouldn't be able to run Windows 10 is if the hardware maker chose to not update their drivers, and at some point you have to stop blaming Microsoft for that. There is no such thing as planned obsolescence when it comes to software. "Throwing aw…

How about 100% everything instead of "basically anything", without serious "if's" like "as long as drivers are compatible" ?

If a machine is running, say, windows xp, and it does in a manner that satisfies the owner's need, then it should be able to keep running forever in the same manner, provided that hardware lasts and/or is replaced with adequate spares, not necessarily anything newer.

It's ok if that computer becomes incompatible with newer software because of that.

It's ok if that computer becomes incompatible with newer outside/network services because of that.

It's not ok if that computer stops being able to execute exactly the same process that it could do 10 years ago.

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