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Berlin is now in a position to usurp London as the startup capital of Europe

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Re: Berlin is now in a position to usurp London as the startup capital of Europe

#111

Post by [deleted] »

HalfwayToDice wrote: post #13
div wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point the article is trying to make wrt immigration is that when the UK leaves the EU, it will also leave the free movement of workers zone, making it harder to attract immigrants, regardless of how London feels about them.

Immigration system for skilled workers is not going to change. If the UK actually does leave the EU, they'll replace EU rules of skilled immigration with something similar. The UK is a knowledge economy, it will always be open to skilled immigrants. Yet people actually believe that the UK will close down all immigration. It's absurd.

[deleted]

Re: Berlin is now in a position to usurp London as the startup capital of Europe

#112

Post by huac »

bllguo wrote: post #106
huac wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I kinda agree with a 'cultural' factor - Europeans are often more risk-averse than Americans or Israeli's, and starting a startup is definitely risky! I'm not sure how the Nordic countries get around that though. A stronger social safety net is probably negatively correlated with risk-aversion.

I think you mean more risk-averse?

fixed :)

Re: Berlin is now in a position to usurp London as the startup capital of Europe

#113

Post by dogma1138 »

nabla9 wrote: post #81
harryf wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of that is mobile games companies like Supercell with Clash of the Clans - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercell_(video_game_company) ... Hay Day, Angry Birds and others. Basically out of the ashes of Nokia, a bunch of mobile gaming companies has sprung up and to some extent are dominating the industry - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Video_game_companies_... - more at https://techcrunch.com/2016/02/10…

King (Candy Crush), Mojang (Minecraft), Rovio (Angry Birds), CCP Games (Eve online), Supercell (Clash of Clans), Unity (game engine) ...

CCP is Icelandic and while it's "nordic" it's kinda far out there, it's also not a particularly big company. Unity Technologies started in Denmark but they moved to SanFran quite early and effectively Unity grew up in SV AFAIK Unity Tech doesn't have an office or any presence in Denmark and that has been true since the very early days.

There are quite a bit of other game related successful ventures up in the north, DICE, Remedy, Nordic Games, Funcom and quite a few others come to mind.

Re: Berlin is now in a position to usurp London as the startup capital of Europe

#114

Post by paublyrne »

parennoob wrote: post #37
rwallace wrote: post #26

Shouldn't we hope that something does? By all accounts, the house price situation in London has become bad enough that it's wiping out the middle class, which is very bad news; the rise of the middle class was a key factor in enabling the transition from feudal society to modern civilization. But while I'm here, I'll throw in a shameless plug: Dublin is still in the EU, and is an English-speaking capital city with mo…

Is housing any cheaper in Dublin?

Dublin has a housing crisis, with a huge shortfall in properties for rent. Construction has largely stalled since 2008.

Re: Berlin is now in a position to usurp London as the startup capital of Europe

#115

Post by cyphunk »

p4wnc6 wrote: post #44
misja111 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand your points about wages being too low in Berlin. If low wages are a problem for a start-up, what is keeping it from offering high wages, even in Berlin? On the other hand, I could imagine that start-ups would rather keep costs low, especially in the beginning. Then it would be a problem to be situated in a city like Zurich.

Investors may choose to invest with a company in a certain city, like Nashville or Berlin or Singapore, because wages are low. So if wages become a problem for the company, the investors stop being interested. There won't be money available to raise wages (for that, the investors will just go back to markets like NYC, Boston, or SF that they trust more). So from birth, companies based in these areas are predicated on…

A lot of this is very true. Though it doesn't factor highly talented looking at quality of living beyond disposable income. The one thing I would say is a shared motivation for many of these types moving to Berlin is they are looking for more diverse environments provided by a city not yet choking on its housing costs, or cities that relegate them always to the bubble of the financially fortunate. Disposable income models don't capture this factor. I personally think a company that chose to pay well in Berlin would find a ton of highly qualified talent. Meh, I could obviously be totally wrong.

Re: Berlin is now in a position to usurp London as the startup capital of Europe

#117

Post by germanier »

blibble wrote: post #107
rsynnott wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the UK actually does leave the EU, they'll replace EU rules of skilled immigration with something similar. Do you understand how EU freedom of movement works? As an EU citizen I can get on a plane tomorrow, and go to any other EU country, and work there. Skills or no skills. And if I'm not happy with my job there I can quit and get another without fear of being deported. And so on... A points-based system would…

it's actually 'freedom of movement for workers': if you lose your job and can't get another, and don't have the ability to support yourself independently then the host country is within its rights to deport you

This right does not immediately cease to exist. If you lose your job you very likely have access to unemployment benefits for some time and there are certain conditions that need to be met before you can be deported. If you have lived there for at least five years it's basically impossible.

This is far stronger than anything you can get via other immigration routes and such deportations of EU citizens are really rare.

Re: Berlin is now in a position to usurp London as the startup capital of Europe

#118

Post by Udik »

lgieron wrote: post #70
rwallace wrote: post #26

Shouldn't we hope that something does? By all accounts, the house price situation in London has become bad enough that it's wiping out the middle class, which is very bad news; the rise of the middle class was a key factor in enabling the transition from feudal society to modern civilization. But while I'm here, I'll throw in a shameless plug: Dublin is still in the EU, and is an English-speaking capital city with mo…

> a pleasant climate I've heard that washing your car in Ireland is a non-issue; the climate takes care of that.

The weather is actually terrible. Not cold in the winter, it rarely snows, but just dull, rainy and windy all year round. It's so bad that in sunny summer days people wish each other "enjoy the sun", and sometimes companies give employees half a day off to celebrate.

Re: Berlin is now in a position to usurp London as the startup capital of Europe

#119

Post by bobthechef »

This will hopefully trigger a Central European response (in part caused by stemming emigration). Germany pays into the coffers of the EU in order to basically pay for access to cheap labor from the East and to keep borders open to push its products without suffering tariffs. The result is that Germany experiences a net benefit but at the cost of draining the East of labor it needs to rebuild after the Cold War and stamping out competition in those countries by flooding the market with its products, thus stifling the growth of the economic base in those countries (turning a country like Poland into a giant German service center isn't creating an economic base, it's economic colonialism). This way, Germany maintains dependence and superiority. The only solution for that region is to form the Intermarium to counteract German and Russian dominance in the region. It's an old idea that sadly didn't have the opportunity to be implemented, but perhaps its time has come.

Re: Berlin is now in a position to usurp London as the startup capital of Europe

#120

Post by jomamaxx »

I doubt this.

Brexit has really no direct consequence on startups.

With housing prices down and no worries about EU legislation, London would be a great place.

The only outstanding issue would be how the new EU worker visa program would work.

Neither London nor Berlin were huge on startups, this won't materially change anything.

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