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Woman wins $10k judgment against Microsoft for forced Windows 10 upgrade

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Re: Woman wins $10k judgment against Microsoft for forced Windows 10 upgrade

#221

Post by freehunter »

JustSomeNobody wrote: post #162
Bartweiss wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My biggest aggravation with Windows is the pattern of unapproved restarts. Sure, there's usually a setting to disable it, and a popup to delay it, but it's not really enough. The setting appears unreliable at best, and the popup is useless when it pops under fullscreen programs. It really only takes one ill-timed restart to damn an OS forever, especially when the restart is chased by lengthy (and impossible to declin…

My biggest issue with Windows Update (specifically) is that it has absolutely no clue what a laptop is. If I'm on a laptop, I'm likely to be out working from site to site, so don't force me to keep my laptop ON so updates can install! Ugh. This is just stupid-headed engineering.

I love the "We will install updates at 3:30am". I'd really like to see you try. My laptop will be in my bag in the hotel room at 3:30am. Hilton will be really happy with you burning the building down when you remotely switch on my Thinkpad with no ventilation.

Re: Woman wins $10k judgment against Microsoft for forced Windows 10 upgrade

#222

Post by freehunter »

Fordrus wrote: post #161
snerbles wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was either not fully thought out, or Microsoft's analysis figured that it would cost less to do it this way. Anecdote: When I worked dispatch, the local Network Operations Center pushed out an update that forcibly rebooted all of our Windows workstations...including the machine that ran inbound emergency calls. The admins at the NOC didn't think that anyone would dial 911 at three in the morning. No malfeasance, b…

See, this is a GREAT comparison, because thinking, "No one will call 911 at 3am" EASILY falls into the realm of destructive negligence. Like "I didn't realize these cars could be hit from the side!" or, "I didn't realize how much worse I drive when I am drunk, officer!" In the 3am 911 case, those admins could EASILY have cost LIVES with their decision. If that inbound call handler's machine had updates waiting, or mo…

That's why you have change control meetings with a change advisory board. Yes they're boring and yes very often the changes don't affect you at all, but it's really nice to hear an admin say "we're taking down critical system X at Y time" and have the ability to say "no you won't, that's when Operation Z is being run".

And that's why a liaison from the "business" side of the organization should be in those meetings too.

Re: Woman wins $10k judgment against Microsoft for forced Windows 10 upgrade

#223

Post by freehunter »

nitrogen wrote: post #188
Decade wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve never seen this. Partly it may be A/B testing and I was never in the B group, but I think people are closing dialog boxes without thinking enough about how they’re closing them, and accidentally agreeing to upgrade.

No matter the dialog box, closing it should always mean "do nothing and go back to where I was before", not "do your sneaky crap later when I'm asleep or busy". Anything else is a malignant antipattern.

Don't Chrome and Firefox do this by default now? Automatically download an update in the background and install it without asking when you close the browser window?

Re: Woman wins $10k judgment against Microsoft for forced Windows 10 upgrade

#224

Post by greenshackle »

pkaye wrote: post #37
dmfdmf wrote: post #16

I'm not a fan of class action law suits but if there ever was a case it should be applied this is it.

With a class action lawsuit, the lawyers will get millions while the rest of us will get a coupon for a free upgrade to windows as settlement.

I know class action lawyers who work incredibly hard to defend the 'small people' and don't make that much. They take David vs Goliath cases. They went after a tobacco company, for example.

The lawsuits take a lot of work, they only get paid if they win, and they don't always win.

I'm sure there are class action lawyers who are in it for the money, but most lawyers who are in it for the money would go into corporate law, not class action.

Re: Woman wins $10k judgment against Microsoft for forced Windows 10 upgrade

#225

Post by noxToken »

freehunter wrote: post #221
JustSomeNobody wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My biggest issue with Windows Update (specifically) is that it has absolutely no clue what a laptop is. If I'm on a laptop, I'm likely to be out working from site to site, so don't force me to keep my laptop ON so updates can install! Ugh. This is just stupid-headed engineering.

I love the "We will install updates at 3:30am". I'd really like to see you try. My laptop will be in my bag in the hotel room at 3:30am. Hilton will be really happy with you burning the building down when you remotely switch on my Thinkpad with no ventilation.

I have never had a Windows laptop boot up for scheduled updates. In that event, it always waitied for the next manual boot.

Re: Woman wins $10k judgment against Microsoft for forced Windows 10 upgrade

#226

Post by eps »

SixSigma wrote: post #50
theandrewbailey wrote: post #3

The idea of "let's put a popup on everyone's computer telling them they can download the next version of Windows for free" simply reeks of malware shit. Even worse is when they decided to force it on everyone else who doesn't automatically click "OK" on every dialog box they see.

In 32 days it won't be free any more (July 29)

Wanna bet that they extend the free offer "by popular demand" or come up with something similar?

Going from "free" to "paid" will guarantee no voluntary upgrades, period. Perhaps if W10 comes bundles with new hardware (just like all Windows versions before it), then - yes, W10 will seep through, but no way in hell anyone will ever explicitly pay Microsoft to upgrade to W10. So they will have absolutely nothing to lose by extending the free offer, so it's exactly what they will do.

Re: Woman wins $10k judgment against Microsoft for forced Windows 10 upgrade

#227

Post by freehunter »

arximboldi wrote: post #134
Someone1234 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sympathetic both ways on this one. I think Microsoft went "too far" but I also agree that we don't want another "XP situation" with Windows 7. Effectively having 20%+ of the market on a super old OS holding back the industry and less secure. Microsoft claim they're planning to avoid this in the future by no longer releasing named new OS's, and instead just update Windows 10 for "free" forever. Basically the same…

"Holding back the industry" No! I think we, the software industry, are very irresponsible when it comes to __planned obsolescence__ [1]. Computers from 10 years ago are very capable of doing most things common users want to do nowadays. However, many modern operating systems and applications make these computers unusable. We are forcing users to upgrade software, and because of all the layers of cruft accumulated in…

Upgrading software isn't (or shouldn't be) planned obsolescence. There's nothing inherent about software that means throwing away hardware. The only reason a Windows 7 machine wouldn't be able to run Windows 10 is if the hardware maker chose to not update their drivers, and at some point you have to stop blaming Microsoft for that.

There is no such thing as planned obsolescence when it comes to software. "Throwing away" software creates no pollution and Windows 10 runs on basically anything Windows 7 ran on.

>There is no valid excuse for Microsoft here.

There is no valid blame for Microsoft here. Windows 10 will run just fine on 10 year old hardware, as long as the device drivers are compatible.

Re: Woman wins $10k judgment against Microsoft for forced Windows 10 upgrade

#228

Post by fapjacks »

Decade wrote: post #182
WorldMaker wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The interesting thing here is that Windows 8, 8.1 and 10 all improved the Windows Update restart timing logic and made it more transparent. (There's a section that states "A restart is planned, Windows has determined the most likely idle time to try the restart is 3:43am" now, for instance.) In this case it's Windows 7's Restart logic that is old/bad (and long has been), not Windows 10, but Windows 10 of course is ge…

In my opinion, there is never a good time to restart. That is simply an artifact of the sad historical circumstances that led to the current state of operating systems. I don’t particularly enjoy waking up to all my programs are closed because Windows decided that tonight was the night that it restarted. It’s slightly better on MacOS, where programs using MacOS-specific APIs can restore their state on startup, but th…

For the record, Linux does not do this, and it is an operating system.

Re: Woman wins $10k judgment against Microsoft for forced Windows 10 upgrade

#229

Post by mikeash »

snerbles wrote: post #97
givinguflac wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Support it if you want, but you seriously think it's OK for the PC to restart in the middle of a call? What if the user is doing something mission critical; it's acceptable to just wait an hour (or more likely several) to get back to work because "MS knows best"?? There is nothing to stop it from just doing it all over again either. I will never use Windows again because of this behavior.

It was either not fully thought out, or Microsoft's analysis figured that it would cost less to do it this way. Anecdote: When I worked dispatch, the local Network Operations Center pushed out an update that forcibly rebooted all of our Windows workstations...including the machine that ran inbound emergency calls. The admins at the NOC didn't think that anyone would dial 911 at three in the morning. No malfeasance, b…

That's terrifying. Why are inbound calls dependent on a Windows machine at all?

Re: Woman wins $10k judgment against Microsoft for forced Windows 10 upgrade

#230

Post by ChoGGi »

gnoway wrote: post #121
sirsuki wrote: post #116

Windows forced upgrade can be avoided with Never10: https://www.grc.com/never10.htm Easily Control Automatic and Unwanted Windows 7 & 8.1 Upgrading to Windows 10

I think you can also just uninstall KB3035583 and then 'hide' it from windows update.

  rem Compatibility update for upgrading Windows 7
  wusa /uninstall /kb:2952664 /quiet /norestart
  rem Update that enables you to upgrade from Windows 7 to a later version of Windows
  wusa /uninstall /kb:2990214 /quiet /norestart
  rem Update to Windows 7 SP1 for performance improvements
  wusa /uninstall /kb:3021917 /quiet /norestart
  rem Update for customer experience and diagnostic telemetry
  wusa /uninstall /kb:3022345 /quiet /norestart
  rem Update installs Get Windows 10 app in Windows 8.1 and Windows 7 SP1
  wusa /uninstall /kb:3035583 /quiet /norestart
  rem Update that enables you to upgrade from Windows 8.1 to a later version of Windows
  wusa /uninstall /kb:3044374 /quiet /norestart
  rem Update for customer experience and diagnostic telemetry
  wusa /uninstall /kb:3068708 /quiet /norestart
  rem Update that adds telemetry points to consent.exe in Windows 8.1 and Windows 7
  wusa /uninstall /kb:3075249 /quiet /norestart
  rem Update for customer experience and diagnostic telemetry
  wusa /uninstall /kb:3080149 /quiet /norestart
  rem Updated capabilities to upgrade Windows 8.1 and Windows 7
  wusa /uninstall /kb:3123862 /quiet /norestart
  rem Updated Internet Explorer 11 capabilities to upgrade Windows 8.1 and Windows 7
  wusa /uninstall /kb:3146449 /quiet /norestart
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