Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Could the Scottish Parliament Stop the UK from Leaving the EU?

bbc.co.uk

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

131–140 of 254 posts

Re: Could the Scottish Parliament Stop the UK from Leaving the EU?

#131

Post by simonh »

codecamper wrote: post #58
simonh wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right, but I think they could make it very difficult for Westminster if they wanted to. It's not a fight they can legally win, but it could still be in their interests to fight it anyway. There's a joke going around here in London that we should devolve with them forming Scotlondon and set up immigration controls at M25 junctions. It's becoming pretty clear that a lot of exit voters never imagined it could act…

Sounds funny, but maybe closer to the reality of the modern age? So much of GDP now comes from cities & information workers, I'd imagine. Is it just London that wanted to remain? What about the other cities? I haven't followed the race closely, but I'm guessing it was the country bumpkins mostly in favor of leaving?

As always with these things it’s a mixed bag. How close some of these results were matters. Many of the other cities went remain by 50%-60%. London was a full 75% for remain though. Totally overwhelming.

There was an interview with people at a market on the BBC yesterday and a stall holder was selling Spanish cherries. He voted brexit, but had a haunted look on his face and said he never believed it would happen. The journalist asked if he regretted it, he said something like "No..... but I wonder whether I made the right decision.". So that would be yes, then.

Interactive results map: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-36616028

Re: Could the Scottish Parliament Stop the UK from Leaving the EU?

#132

Post by davidgerard »

whiteandnerdy wrote: post #14
davidgerard wrote: post #6

This is a lot of words to say "technically maybe, but they're not so stupid as to try without a lot of public backing."

I think the position is: technically no, practically almost certainly no, but politically it might be a sensible move for the SNP to strengthen support from Scottish voters.

Apparently it's now polling 59% https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/747320186433208321

Re: Could the Scottish Parliament Stop the UK from Leaving the EU?

#133

Post by vmateixeira »

_Understated_ wrote: post #87
antouank wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess you do not care whether the UK will be (or maybe is) way worse off economically and that xenophobia/racism is now an "every day" thing. Fine, vote "leave", probably suits better that mentality.

I am utterly disgusted and bloody sick of being portrayed as a racist, xenophobic bigot because I wanted to take back democratic control of my country. Race issues had nothing to do with my decision to leave. How dare you paint me in that light when you know absolutely nothing about me or my motives for wanting to remove my country from the clutches of an undemocratic state. Your narrow-mindedness is part of the reas…

So.. what were your motives?

Re: Could the Scottish Parliament Stop the UK from Leaving the EU?

#134

Post by vmateixeira »

dazc wrote: post #98
antouank wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess you do not care whether the UK will be (or maybe is) way worse off economically and that xenophobia/racism is now an "every day" thing. Fine, vote "leave", probably suits better that mentality.

The UK is one of the most ethnically diverse and tolerant nations on Earth. This is a fact you'll find difficult to argue against.

London you mean...

Re: Could the Scottish Parliament Stop the UK from Leaving the EU?

#135

Post by vmateixeira »

robhu wrote: post #124
shin_lao wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Several political leaders admitted that they lied during the election, therefore people voted based on lies. Since the majority isn't that big (less than 52%) is would be acceptable to not immediately follow through. It's as big as a constitutional change and such change usually require more than 50% to be adopted.

I have not seen anyone admit that they lied - I have seen several point out that what they said when asked about a policy was more nuanced than what was a slogan, but that is not lieing. Can you please reference where you saw a politician actually "admit they lied"?

Sure, here you go... http://www.itv.com/goodmorningbritain/news/nigel-farage-labe...

http://i4.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article7943774.ece/ALTERNATE...

Re: Could the Scottish Parliament Stop the UK from Leaving the EU?

#136

Post by 7952 »

andrewingram wrote: post #53
Nursie wrote: post #21

There's a lot of clutching at straws going on at the moment. People coming out with political or legal theories, trying to interpret David Cameron's failure to immediately declare leaving under article 50 as kicking the whole issue into the long grass etc etc. This is the latest, like others it's more of an exercise in denial than it is in reality. Many of these things could come to pass, it's true, but each one carr…

I posted this on Facebook, so i'll paste it verbatim, but i'll acknowledge that whilst it is indeed grasping futilely, it's also the case that even before the referendum took place, I thought it was a stupidly binary and dangerous question to be asking people: ---- Some people voted leave for less immigration, others for more balanced (non EU-biased) immigration, it seems that these goals are fundamentally at odds. T…

Democracy is all about individual power rather than the collective outcome. Of course remain supporters are free to pursue continued membershpip using any legal method open to them. And the Brexit gang are free to try and stop them. IMHO the Brexiteers would almost certainly win the argument so it is not worth pursuing.

On immigration I worry that we will see a crack down on non-EU immigration to allow continued EU immigration. People will argue that they are closer to us culturally, and they would be right. It is hard to see how the government can avoid appeasing ant-immigrant sentiment at this point.

I agree 100% that we need a better voting system. I can't stand UKIP, but I absoutely think they should have more representation in parliment. It would be good to use this as an oppurtunity to reform the house of lords into being fully elected. Give them the authority that the EU held in terms of long term regulation. We need an institution that can take a long term view which we will sorely miss post Brexit.

Re: Could the Scottish Parliament Stop the UK from Leaving the EU?

#137

Post by tt293 »

lhnz wrote: post #101
antouank wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess you do not care whether the UK will be (or maybe is) way worse off economically and that xenophobia/racism is now an "every day" thing. Fine, vote "leave", probably suits better that mentality.

Xenophobia isn't the reason intelligent people are pro 'Leave'. For example, many powerful free-trade Libertarian think-tanks backed Brexit: the Hoover Institution [0], the Cato Institute [1], the Adam Smith Institute [2], etc. These certainly aren't racist dumb-dumbs or protectionist "little Englanders", and their opinions are well worth a read. While bigots exist and certainly voted 'Leave' that does not mean that…

Not that many intelligent people are actually 'pro Leave':

http://blogs.ft.com/ftdata/files/2016/06/brexit-education-re...

Re: Could the Scottish Parliament Stop the UK from Leaving the EU?

#138

Post by fauigerzigerk »

ck425 wrote: post #120
sievebrain wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU Commission has already said flat out there would have to be a new application. That application would certainly be vetoed by either the Spanish (catalan issues) or the Germans (Scotland has a bigger deficit than Greece).

Perhaps, but it would be a different situation from a completely new country joining. The Spanish have back pedalled on their previous threats to do so. Not sure about Germany. I'm not say it would definitely happen, only that it would be an unprecedented situation so we can't rely on assumptions either way.

I agree. At this point all assumptions based on the status quo ante have to be treated with great caution. The Spanish may very well accept that the UK/Scotland situation is now different enough from their own that any contagion is unlikely.

Re: Could the Scottish Parliament Stop the UK from Leaving the EU?

#139

Post by DanBC »

simonh wrote: post #131
codecamper wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds funny, but maybe closer to the reality of the modern age? So much of GDP now comes from cities & information workers, I'd imagine. Is it just London that wanted to remain? What about the other cities? I haven't followed the race closely, but I'm guessing it was the country bumpkins mostly in favor of leaving?

As always with these things it’s a mixed bag. How close some of these results were matters. Many of the other cities went remain by 50%-60%. London was a full 75% for remain though. Totally overwhelming. There was an interview with people at a market on the BBC yesterday and a stall holder was selling Spanish cherries. He voted brexit, but had a haunted look on his face and said he never believed it would happen. The…

There's a variety of voter regrets I've heard.

There's the people saying "I never thought leave would win, I just didn't want remain to win overwhelmingly"

There's the people saying "Even if leave did win it will never happen, so I just voted for the protest option"

There's the people who said "wait, we never knew about all these things, we would have voted differently if we had known".

https://twitter.com/BestoftheMail/status/746716159559483392

Re: Could the Scottish Parliament Stop the UK from Leaving the EU?

#140

Post by sambeau »

Hidden in the same discussion paper is the fact that the Northern Ireland (and Welsh) parliaments would also have to ratify the new laws required to remove EU law from their legal systems.

The Northern Ireland parliament would be incompetent if they voted for it. Removing the EU from Northern Ireland would break the Good Friday agreement and has the real potential to throw them back into war.

Post reply on HN