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Why Fruits and Veggies Are So Cheap in Chinatown

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Re: Why Fruits and Veggies Are So Cheap in Chinatown

#81

Post by twblalock »

xorcist wrote: post #74
venomsnake wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lets start with the obvious - a modern food is disgustingly safe compared to what a human immune system is capable of handling. No matter what Madison Avenue has tried to convince the US public - a single or couple of bacteria won't kill you. And if you mean prepared Chinese food - have you seen the burners under the woks - they look, sound and consume fuel at comparable rate to a jet engine. It is very intense style…

> couple of bacteria won't kill you That's naive. Enjoy your chicken sashimi.

Chicken and pork sashimi are not difficult to find in Japan.

Re: Why Fruits and Veggies Are So Cheap in Chinatown

#82

Post by akiselev »

twoodfin wrote: post #51
Stratoscope wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had the good fortune to grow up when Have Gun Will Travel was first broadcast. One of my favorite episodes was Gun Shy, where Paladin travels to Montana and visits Ma Warren's boarding house. Ma's house was famous for its food. Paladin lived in San Francisco and enjoyed the city's finest, and he was surprised and delighted with what Ma Warren prepared in this remote area. She was obviously a talented cook, but Pala…

I'm pretty sure that health incidents due to food-borne pathogens have declined dramatically in the past 150 years. Eating at Chipotle is probably an order of magnitude safer on average than eating at the real "Ma Warren's" of 1875.

Absolutely. We've learned a lot about cleanliness and transmission vectors in that time, especially after there was a whole progressive reform movement on food safety sparked by Upton Sinclair's novel The Jungle (ironically, a book about the living conditions and exploitation of immigrants).

Re: Why Fruits and Veggies Are So Cheap in Chinatown

#83

Post by billc8 »

PakG1 wrote: post #48
whack wrote: post #41

"Chinatown is way cheaper... I figured the prices were cheap because the selection is all C-grade bok choy and yesterday’s bananas. Wrong again! Chinatown’s 80-plus produce markets are cheap because they are connected to a web of small farms and wholesalers that operate independently of the network supplying most mainstream supermarkets." So what's stopping the mainstream supermarkets from doing the same thing, under…

Supermarkets have to operate at scale, and their inventory has to be a relative mirror image across all locations, as well as match prices they plan and advertise in advance. To enable that standardization, there's a lot of central planning, and I imagine also a lot of centralized logistics. These farmer market-style operations are much more fluid and flexible.

How does El Super do it because they appear to operate at scale. A friend said it could be cheaper labor cost and I just saw this- http://elsupermarkets.com/supply-chain-act

They reference slavery and human trafficking, and say they investigate reports of it but don't audit their suppliers.

I don't have specifics but I think you could buy apples for 80 cents a pound, and everything else is just unbelievably cheap.

I'd buy a shopping cart full of vegetables and fruits for $30 which at Gelson's would easily cost 3-4 times as much.

Re: Why Fruits and Veggies Are So Cheap in Chinatown

#84

Post by akiselev »

ceejayoz wrote: post #34
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #6

Growing up, I remember Marina Foods in Cupertino being much fresher than the other grocers. > Chinatown’s green grocers, in contrast, buy their stock from a handful of small wholesalers operating from tiny warehouses right in the neighborhood Chipotle tried hyper-localised procurement and processing. That backfired, since heterogeneity in sourcing and processing means heterogeneity in quality control. How do these ma…

> How do these markets avoid food poisoning their customers? If you buy veggies, it's on you to wash them. If you buy prepared food that includes veggies, it's on the vendor to wash them.

Bacteria can't be effectively washed off with water, which is why we use chemical abrasives and surfactants like toothpaste and soap when brushing our teeth or washing our hands. I don't know anyone who uses dish soap on their lettuce and grocery store outbreaks of food borne illness are a regular occurence, just not as sensationalized as the outbreaks at national fast food chains.

Re: Why Fruits and Veggies Are So Cheap in Chinatown

#85

Post by jimmywanger »

peterbonney wrote: post #61
jimmywanger wrote: post #17

I think that one factor is that in the Chinese culture, you don't expect everything to be good and available during all seasons. At a Whole Foods, you can reasonably be assured of asparagus in the winter time. In Chinatown, things are only available when they're in season, like a farmers' market. Also, if you've ever ordered at a Chinese restaurant with a Chinese family, you'll see this phenomenon. Instead of orderin…

"I think that one factor is that in the Chinese culture, you don't expect everything to be good and available during all seasons." I don't think that's a cultural thing, and certainly not an ethnic thing. I think it might have something to do with how many generations-removed one is from agrarian life (or close physical/logistical proximity to it)... Growing up in my (very white) hometown in New England, which still…

I don't think it's an ethnic thing. But I definitely think it's a cultural thing. I agree with you about how many generations-removed you are from food production. Rather, how many steps/middlemen you're used to.

For example: China is still a developing country with a generally low per capita income. You're intimately familiar with the seasons, and what's available when, and what it takes to get your food.

Few can afford to shop at Western style supermarkets regularly, so you have a better idea (and know) the people growing and selling your food. "Oh, that's the place that always has the good cabbage". That sort of thing.

Compare that to the states, where even produce comes shrink wrapped and you have no idea how it got in the store, you just know you need to pay money to bring it home. How many trucks/resellers/packagers has this produce gone through before I take it home?

Re: Why Fruits and Veggies Are So Cheap in Chinatown

#86

Post by zem »

akiselev wrote: post #84
ceejayoz wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How do these markets avoid food poisoning their customers? If you buy veggies, it's on you to wash them. If you buy prepared food that includes veggies, it's on the vendor to wash them.

Bacteria can't be effectively washed off with water, which is why we use chemical abrasives and surfactants like toothpaste and soap when brushing our teeth or washing our hands. I don't know anyone who uses dish soap on their lettuce and grocery store outbreaks of food borne illness are a regular occurence, just not as sensationalized as the outbreaks at national fast food chains.

my grandmother would always wash fresh vegetables in a potassium permanganate solution. i guess the practice declined as food was increasingly perceived to be safe

Re: Why Fruits and Veggies Are So Cheap in Chinatown

#87

Post by akiselev »

thenewwazoo wrote: post #77
akiselev wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The two stores deal with very different tagret markets and have very different economics. Whole Foods shoppers are willing to spend way more on produce, which is usually very low margin, so they don't need to make up the profit on their other items. Compare, for example Vons and Pavilions, which are owned by the same company. In my town we have a Vons literally across the street from Pavilions and while their prices…

Your experience definitely does not mirror mine. Where I live, there's a WF literally across the street from a Safeway. I've extensively comparison-shopped, and have found that WF's produce (I don't eat meat, sorry) is always cheaper than Safeway's, and there's lots more selection. In general, the local WF is cheaper for anything shopping the perimeter. Packaged goods are more expensive, and often not brand-for-brand…

Where do you live? My experience comes from wealthy suburbs in Los Angeles and Miami as well as the Bay Area in general but different markets are different.

There can be many effects in play like marketing, staffing, and real estate prices. The Vons I mentioned is actually getting more expensive while the Pavilions is getting cheaper because the Vons cut back on cashiers. The longer lines have caused many of my friends and I to start shopping at Pavilions, which is causing a death spiral as Vons tries to charge more for produce just so they can pay the overhead on the building (the Vons location costs twice as much in rent as the Pavilions because of lease terms and the outdoor mall it's in, despite being across the street).

Re: Why Fruits and Veggies Are So Cheap in Chinatown

#88

Post by sukilot »

akiselev wrote: post #75
TaylorAlexander wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hear people say that, but I keep seeing things that are cheaper at Whole Foods than they are at Safeway. Identical products, like Endangered Species brand 88% dark chocolate and Racer 5 IPA beer are cheaper at my local Whole Foods than they are at Safeway. $3.29 vs $3.99 and $4.99 vs $5.99, respectively. Their produce and meat may be more expensive, but appears to be of higher quality. I'm not actually sure how muc…

The two stores deal with very different tagret markets and have very different economics. Whole Foods shoppers are willing to spend way more on produce, which is usually very low margin, so they don't need to make up the profit on their other items. Compare, for example Vons and Pavilions, which are owned by the same company. In my town we have a Vons literally across the street from Pavilions and while their prices…

Trade Joe's entire reason for existence is that most of their stuff, both packages and produce. is cheaper than other area stores. There are a private label store.

Re: Why Fruits and Veggies Are So Cheap in Chinatown

#89

Post by sukilot »

sotojuan wrote: post #44
Alex3917 wrote: post #18

The veggies in NYC's hispanic green markets are also really cheap. Same with the produce in the Korean markets, the Cambodian markets, etc. While there might be something unique about the Chinese markets, I think in general stuff marketed to white people is just overpriced. Just look at how the cost of food at Smorgasburg compares with the cost of prepared food in Flushing, or at the price of housing between those tw…

Definitely true. My roommate was a Chinese international and he thought everyone in my college was crazy to pay so much for X Chinese dish or Y food at a restaurant or market. I started to agree with him once I began to go to places that aren't Whole Foods.

And McDonald's costs more in China than USA. Funny how that works, commodities and competition.

Re: Why Fruits and Veggies Are So Cheap in Chinatown

#90

Post by seanmcdirmid »

throwaway_bob wrote: post #63

I lived on henry street for a while, and I can't say that I know anything about the back end of the distribution network, but I can say this article is missing a lot of things about the front end. The produce is cheaper than a standard western store, but the quality is much more varied. Moreover, the market (in the economic sense) seems really efficient. If you see something cheap in Manhattan chinatown in every stor…

And this describes grocery shopping in China, not just Chinatown. I look forward to the day I can just go to a western supermarket and not have to worry about getting jipped on veggies...save so much work even if they cost a lot more money.
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