Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Airbnb's impact on cities

theguardian.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 153 posts

Re: Airbnb's impact on cities

#41

Post by RobertoG »

EugeneOZ wrote: post #5
joelrunyon wrote: post #4

I'm staying longer term in BCN for a month and a half and accidentally ended up at an outdoor concert last night before realizing that it was protesting tourists. "Tourism kills the city" was the slogan on the signs around the area. In 2 weeks, I've seen at least 2 demonstrations like this and it seems to be picking up from previous years that I've been here. Things are a little more crowded and I feel like every day…

Catalonia is not only Barcelona. In Barcelona tourism is about third of city's income, so protests like this are ridiculous. Noisy tourists are usually in hotels/hostels. And I have to say locals sometimes are more noisy than tourists.

" In Barcelona tourism is about third of city's income, so protests like this are ridiculous. "

I think that the debate in Barcelona (and other cities) is a little more sophisticate of what your are implying.

There is a balance somewhere that cities have to find and this is what they are trying to do. Another consideration is that excessive tourism will kill what makes the city interesting.

Re: Airbnb's impact on cities

#42

Post by RobertoG »

hyperbovine wrote: post #26
joelrunyon wrote: post #4

I'm staying longer term in BCN for a month and a half and accidentally ended up at an outdoor concert last night before realizing that it was protesting tourists. "Tourism kills the city" was the slogan on the signs around the area. In 2 weeks, I've seen at least 2 demonstrations like this and it seems to be picking up from previous years that I've been here. Things are a little more crowded and I feel like every day…

Take it with a grain of salt: the Catalans will find any excuse to protest. I've lived all over the world and nothing even comes close to the number of street demonstrations I witnessed during my time in Barcelona.

Maybe it was the time you choose to be in Barcelona what was different, not the Catalan people?

Re: Airbnb's impact on cities

#43

Post by moptar »

jackweirdy wrote: post #36
moptar wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any change in the housing market it bad for someone. Rents going down can cause owners to lose their homes. Rents going up upsets people who want the security of living in the same place but are't willing to pay for that luxury by buying their own house. More interesting is what the long term picture would look like if the AirBnB is left to carry on unimpeded. Whatever it is will surely be better for people in genera…

Not just those who aren't willing to pay - many (like me) aren't able to pay yet.

People who can't afford it shouldn't expect it to just be given to them. I spent a long time not being able to afford a house and when I couldn't afford rents, I simply moved elsewhere. I never imagined blaming some nebulous group for that inconvenience. It's just part of life.

Re: Airbnb's impact on cities

#44

Post by YokoZar »

Symbiote wrote: post #38
yummyfajitas wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I said: All the folks criticizing AirBnB want to do is make sure they aren't the ones who face the problem. Tourists are people too, and need a place to live. The folks in Barcelona just want to make sure it's the tourists, rather than them, who suffer from the housing shortage.

Tourists before AirBnB would simply not visit somewhere if the hotel price was beyond what they could afford. Is there any justification at all that could prioritise tourists over residents for living space?

Tourists are seen as a way to generate revenue for a city while not incurring the sorts of costs in services that residents do. Similar motivations cause cities to build office buildings without corresponding homes.

Empirically it seems like cities value tourists over residents -- if cities actually wanted residents, they'd approve construction of housing for them.

Re: Airbnb's impact on cities

#45

Post by abalone »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #21
trusche wrote: post #7

Here in Dublin, Ireland, rents are exploding, mostly because of a severe shortage in apartments, and it's a fair question to ask if AirBnB is partially to blame. From [1]: > The average rental value of a two-bed apartment in the city centre at €2,000 per month, less a management fee, would equate to the apartment being occupied for just 120 nights of the year through Airbnb. > Investors have confirmed that if correct…

The obvious solution to a severe shortage in apartments is to build more. Why doesn't Ireland do this? Pigeonhole principle: if K people want to be in Ireland at any one time, and there are N < K apartments, K - N people will have a problem. All the folks criticizing AirBnB want to do is make sure they aren't the ones who face the problem.

Macroeconomics is more complicated than that. Basically the property market overheated and crashed in a big way less than a decade ago, with lingering industry-wide effects.[1] Additionally lots of crappy houses were built so they added a bunch of quality regulations that have driven up the cost.[2]

[1] http://www.reuters.com/article/ireland-economy-housing-idUSL...

[2] http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/15bb4d40-4714-11e5-b3b2-1672f71080...

Re: Airbnb's impact on cities

#46

Post by frequent »

Isn't the "ruining" of cities more due to general lack of affordable space in light of increased urbanization and tourism?

Granted, Airbnb will add its share to the overall shortage, but if I'd take all Airbnb apartments off of any market, would this put rents back to an affordable level or curtail tourism?

Airbnb reminds me a bit of eBay - good idea led to an influx of professional sellers, which at some point had to be regulated (register as business, taxable income) and in growing up, the platform lost most of its appeal and discoverability of the things it once was created for. Still fills a large enough demand to be around.

I'll call the same for Airbnb: There's demand for staying at a place which does not feel like a hotel and I found the Berlin ruling made for Airbnb to be going in a good direction (Zwecksentfremdungsverbot - use Airbnb if you rent out part of your place, but if you rent on as a business, it must be registered as such). I'll expect other cities to follow suit, because it also postpones having to address the underlying issue.

(regular Couchsurfing host and sparse surfer)

Re: Airbnb's impact on cities

#47

Post by zuzun »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #21
trusche wrote: post #7

Here in Dublin, Ireland, rents are exploding, mostly because of a severe shortage in apartments, and it's a fair question to ask if AirBnB is partially to blame. From [1]: > The average rental value of a two-bed apartment in the city centre at €2,000 per month, less a management fee, would equate to the apartment being occupied for just 120 nights of the year through Airbnb. > Investors have confirmed that if correct…

The obvious solution to a severe shortage in apartments is to build more. Why doesn't Ireland do this? Pigeonhole principle: if K people want to be in Ireland at any one time, and there are N < K apartments, K - N people will have a problem. All the folks criticizing AirBnB want to do is make sure they aren't the ones who face the problem.

The obvious solution is to understand how governments work. Residents are the voters, not the tourists. Blame the cities banning holiday rentals all day, in the end they are acting in the best interest of their citizens.

Re: Airbnb's impact on cities

#48

Post by arethuza »

abalone wrote: post #45
yummyfajitas wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The obvious solution to a severe shortage in apartments is to build more. Why doesn't Ireland do this? Pigeonhole principle: if K people want to be in Ireland at any one time, and there are N < K apartments, K - N people will have a problem. All the folks criticizing AirBnB want to do is make sure they aren't the ones who face the problem.

Macroeconomics is more complicated than that. Basically the property market overheated and crashed in a big way less than a decade ago, with lingering industry-wide effects.[1] Additionally lots of crappy houses were built so they added a bunch of quality regulations that have driven up the cost.[2] [1] http://www.reuters.com/article/ireland-economy-housing-idUSL... [2] http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/15bb4d40-4714-11e5-b3…

That first article says that the Irish government has introduced rent controls. Hardly surprising if there are controls over what people can charge that there is a lack of properties to rent?

Re: Airbnb's impact on cities

#49

Post by rorykoehler »

zuzun wrote: post #47
yummyfajitas wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The obvious solution to a severe shortage in apartments is to build more. Why doesn't Ireland do this? Pigeonhole principle: if K people want to be in Ireland at any one time, and there are N < K apartments, K - N people will have a problem. All the folks criticizing AirBnB want to do is make sure they aren't the ones who face the problem.

The obvious solution is to understand how governments work. Residents are the voters, not the tourists. Blame the cities banning holiday rentals all day, in the end they are acting in the best interest of their citizens.

Apart from their citizens making a living through the platform. From my experience in Berlin they are acting in the best interests of the hotel lobby. The citizens were just a convenient foil.

Re: Airbnb's impact on cities

#50

Post by rorykoehler »

philipDS wrote: post #19
EugeneOZ wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Catalonia is not only Barcelona. In Barcelona tourism is about third of city's income, so protests like this are ridiculous. Noisy tourists are usually in hotels/hostels. And I have to say locals sometimes are more noisy than tourists.

I've been living in Barcelona on/off since 2013. I don't have a problem with the tourists. I do have a problem with drunk tourists who pee and shout in the streets at night. Very disrespectful. I completely understand the protests.. Tourists are a real pain in Barcelona, especially in El Born/Raval/around La Rambla.

Let me rephrase that for you:

I have a problem with people who pee and shout in the streets.

Surely this is covered by some law which should be enforced with greater severity?

Post reply on HN